Westministenders: Hey Hey we're the Monkies.

[RedToothBrush]

Welcome to the Listening Parliament.

Have you noticed it yet?

The Three Monkeys of See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil have been in a bit of a fight with didn’t fair well. Its funny how politicians of all shades and levels are desperate to prove just how good they at listening and how they see the problems.

Its quite incredible to think that officials elected to serve the public are even in this position where they are having suddenly think about how they show they are listening. It rather shows up that they have been accustomed to telling the public what to think and what to believe.

What they are still to work out, is that in saying they are listening, they also have to demonstrate they are listening and be credible.

The trouble is, that even though some of the monkeys have been killed off, we still have a lot of monkeys in parliament. 'Monkey say, Monkey do' actions still lurk. Politicians who imitate others without understanding the consequences.

There is no point in listening if you are only listening to one group and don’t understand the consequences of simply repeating the words of others.

Politicians saying they are listening when you can find dozens of incidents where they have said completely the opposition, without having the gumption to explain they have changed their position and without having the grace to explain the evidence that has lead them to change that position rather undermines the idea they are listening.

U-Turns are not a bad thing. U-Turns can show that you were making an error but were wise enough to admit that and why you were wrong. U-Turns are bad when you fail to acknowledge your failings and only do it to chase votes. This is where cynicism creeps in and lack of trust in politicians occurs.

Listening also requires actions to reflect words. There is no good in saying one thing, if your actions don’t reflect that. This is where the Listening Parliament is already failing. And I’m sure we will see it more.

Above all, listening is only part of a conversation. A politician is supposed to be accountable. They are supposed to have their eyes open to evil, not deaf to it and not unwilling to speak inconvenient truths where they recognise the evil.

Any politician who tells you they listen needs to back it up somehow. They need to demonstrate and justify their positions accurately. If they don’t they aren’t listening properly.

Isn’t it funny how it was in Hartlepool that the monkey got hung for being a Frenchman? No one was there to explain differently.

twofingers that's scary stuff but thanks for posting. Ai Weiwei's recent exhibition 'Safe Passage' was pretty disturbing. In Brexit news, there are now 20 countries after the European Medicines Agency - the new location has to be unanimously approved so who knows how that is going to work out. Dutch campaign will be led by Wouter Bos so being taken v.v. seriously indeed.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-06/jeremy-corbyn-to-meet-chief-eu-brexit-negotiator-next-week?utm_content=politics&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics

U.K. Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn plans to meet chief EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier next week, Bloomberg News reports.

“Fundamentally we want to make sure there’s tariff-free trade access to the European market, that’s crucial,” Corbyn said in an interview with Bloomberg TV’s Guy Johnson.

Corbyn added that he was “very ready” for another general election in Britain.

Developing...

Well, Brexit or not, the EU has to carry on doing what the EU does (I wonder how that squares with the Brexitocalypse narrative we were spun pre referendum ?).

So here they are, starting to look to ensure that if you buy a smartphone, the **er can be repaired, and not need an (artificially-mandated) "upgrade" or replacement.

While the article interesting, I prefer to read the comments. Sites like "The Register" have a much lower troll count as they're not for public consumption ...

• No one thinks Brexit is a good idea
• No one thinks that the UK will be able to "opt out" of regulations like this and even if they could
• No manufacture will piddle around with "EU27" models and "UK Brexit" models anyway.

Incidentally, this is one of a myriad of ongoing EU workstreams. I wonder what DD is doing to ensure he's keeping abreast of them all for his next days negotiation (after citizens rights, NI border and divorce bill, of course) ?

Astoundingly, Jacobs pater was behind the clarion Who Breaks a Butterfly on a Wheel ? editorial in the Sunday Times in 1967 where he supported the Rolling Stones against an oppressive use of the law.

Somehow I can't see Jacob doing the same ....

Lol

LH I think RM jnr is surely just carrying on the family tradition. His whole philosophy is about limiting State intrusion.

Having a quiet chuckle to myself at the thought of JRM as the next generation. He is the same age as me and only a year younger than Gove. Boris is positively ancient as he is a year older than my big Bro.

Steve Baker did get given a hard time on the bit of the Daily Politics I saw. He was asked to comment on why TM had raised Greece as an example of a country not living within its means. He was suitably embarrassed when informed they are currently running a budget surplus of 0.7% against the Tory UK deficit of close to 3%.

Grandfathering is the favoured method of introducing Draconian benefit cuts. eg abolish widow's benefit but current recipients continue to get it, change the public sector pension scheme for new entrants only.

The increased Brexiteer fever has been noted elsewhere:

Sam Coates Times‏Verified account @SamCoatesTimes

Feels like a co-ordinated push on Brexit today from sceptics. Barnier. Hague. More coming later. Do Brexiteers think they are facing a coup?

From yesterday:

Andrew Lilico‏**@andrew**_lilico

General Election result really seems to hv battered business confidence - understandably. (It certainly battered mine!)
Of course, some folk'll look at this & say: "What cld've happened in June 2017? Brexit! It's bound to have been Brexit."
I'm much more pessimistic about Brexit myself since the General Election. It's the Election that changed that.

Note, he still supports Brexit strongly but interesting to see its not just Dominic Cumming who is saying Brexit might not be so good afterall.

Barnier has laid down the law:

Michel Barnier‏*@MichelBarnier*

In a classic negotiation 'no deal’=status quo. #Brexit 'no deal’=return to distant past, which we all should avoid
europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-17-1922_en.htm
Speech by Michel Barnier at the European Economic and Social Committee

Laurent Pech‏*@ProfPech*
Confirms EU 'red lines':
- '4 freedoms' are indivisible
- no a la carte participation in single market
- EU autonomy to set rules/standards

And a few articles about what Barnier has said which are a bit easier to understand than the speech itself.

euobserver.com/uk-referendum/138452
Barnier sets the price for hard Brexit

www.politico.eu/article/barnier-warns-u-k-on-frictionless-trade-post-brexit-that-is-not-possible/
Barnier tells UK frictionless trade ‘not possible’ post Brexit
EU’s chief Brexit negotiator warns of painful economic consequences for Britain.

Note: This blows Labour Brexit up completely. Simply not possible in the format that Starmer proposes (But we knew that anyway)

William Hague has stepped in:

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-william-hague-damage-britains-influence-world-stage-former-foreign-secretary-eu-a7826761.html
Brexit will ‘undoubtedly’ damage Britain’s influence on world stage, says William Hague
The former Foreign Secretary said membership of the EU'sCommon Political Security Committee 'amplifies the UK's weight in the world'

And apparently so has Cameron:

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/825225/David-Cameron-Brexit-deal-MPs-Norway-Theresa-May
Cameron’s secret Brexit SABOTAGE: Ex-PM 'calling MPs to urge them to oppose May’s plans'
DAVID Cameron has risked widening the Tory rift over Europe by privately pressing MPs to support a watered-down Brexit deal that would keep Britain firmly tied to Brussels, party sources revealed last night.

Andrew Lilico‏**@andrew**_lilico

Conservative govt giving up on controlling immigration by staying in Single Mkt wld all-but guarantee a Corbyn govt.

Would it?

The New Stateman and Sam Coates of the Times make a similar observation to the one from Newsnight:

Sam Coates Times‏*@SamCoatesTimes*

Feels like a co-ordinated push on Brexit today from sceptics. Barnier. Hague. More coming later. Do Brexiteers think they are facing a coup?
The next 24 hours will be a fascinating test for how well strong election Brexiteers feel...

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/07/brexiteers-fear-they-are-losing-argument
The Brexiteers fear they are losing the argument

BBC Newsnight‏ @BBCNewsnight
am beginning to hear talk in some quarters that Brexit may not actually happen" reports @nicholaswatt #newsnight
twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/882721353329135616

Tom Newton Dunn‏*@tnewtondunn* (The Sun's Politicial Editor)
I've been amazed by how pessimistic Brexiteers have now become. Most ardent Leaver I know texted today: "We've (they've) blown it".

I have also seen someone saying on twitter that they heard IDS on the radio saying that he didn't campaign for Leave and he only made up his mind the day before the referendum. I can't verify this though - the person said himself he couldn't remember the source, but thought it was World at One. IDS has also been on Radio 2. I'd love to find out if this was indeed true. It would not surprise me.

However, its pointed out that we still will need an awful lot to change things:

jonworth.eu/brexit-bullshit-asymmetry-principle/
The Brexit Bullshit Asymmetry Principle
This then is our Brexit Bullshit Asymmetry Principle*: that the amount of energy necessary to refute Brexit bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it.

So far the reaction to this changing tide perhaps seems well....

inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/liam-fox-mps-wear-ties-promote-english-tie-makers-post-brexit/
Liam Fox: MPs should wear ties to promote British tie-makers post-Brexit

followed by in the same link:
Boris Johnson says he wishes he had the same freedom to tweet as Donald Trump

Like so much of the bullshit we've become used to over the past year.

Like the Turkey are about to join the EU one. News today:

www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-eu-parliament-idUSKBN19R194
EU parliament asks for Turkish accession talks to be suspended

Conflict News‏*@Conflicts*

BREAKING: European Parliament votes to accept proposal to suspend Turkey’s EU accession talks - @HDNER

Oh. Bugger. Boom, there goes another one of those lies.

Its all rather depressing rather than hopeful to me. Someone has to come out openly and say they have made a mistake. Its difficult to see who that might be. The Conservatives have a huge number of people supporting them primarily because of Brexit. That rather hamstrings most of them. Which Brexiteer could lead a U-turn? Difficult to see any of them growing a spin.

I'm not sure we are as close to the tipping point as many would like to believe.

Unless a loose alliance of crossparty centrist Remain MPs aka the sensible ones, can grow some balls and champion a consensus agenda?

It might not even need that, there are 63 wankers in the What's app group and 317 Conservative MPs. I wonder how many of the rest are sensible?

By the way I think JRM tries too hard, that must be a hell of a sense of insecurity that motivates him to work so hard at being superior........

LH I think RM jnr is surely just carrying on the family tradition. His whole philosophy is about limiting State intrusion.

Surely the ultimate expression of limiting state intrusion is no government ? Thus revealing JRM to be a massssssove hypocrite ?

Anyway, thats old Tory (small "c" conservatism). Certainly since Thatcher it seems the state has found more and more ways to stick it's nose into peoples affairs.

To be honest, as far as I can see, there's little to chose between Tory and Labour when it comes to state power. They both seem to want a lot of it, just argue over where it should be used. And in a sense, I find Labour a lot more honest about it. Because Tories almost invariably spout some bollocks about a "free market" whilst busily rigging said market for their mates.

I'm not sure we are as close to the tipping point as many would like to believe.

There is still a huge way to go. Nobody likes admitting they were wrong. Persuading people to accept they have made a mistake of this magnitude is like trying to coax a herd of belligerent elephants out of the veg patch. I do think it is moving very slowly in the right direction now though.

Unless a loose alliance of crossparty centrist Remain MPs aka the sensible ones, can grow some balls and champion a consensus agenda?

I suspect there is a growing realisation that actually, no balls are required. Just a quiet patience, and the march of time.

Remember Operation Foxely ? In the end the Allies decided that Germany stood a better chance of capitulating the longer Hitler was left in power.

The longer Brexit continues relatively unopposed, the less conspiracy theorists can blame any actions on the Remain side. Certainly within the UK. Part of me hopes that this has been communicated to Davies, Fox and Johnson ... that they incompetence is actually keeping them in a job, as any replacement might actually be quite a bit better.

It's basically like doing a three-dimensional, pan-national jigsaw. I think Remainers are slightly disadvantaged (????) by generally being open to more news sources (especially non-Anglophone ones) where the mood music on Brexit has changed dramatically, thanks to 8th June.

My (US based) DB has said he's heard a couple of people suggest that if the UK emerges with no deal, then it's "no deal for them as well". The idea that no company - let alone country - is willing to deal with an isolated UK is starting to bear weight.

Even on these boards, the abrupt drop off in Leaver activity and tone is illuminating. The few that are left are back to unicorns again. They have no positives to report a year on.

“I have heard some people in the UK argue that one can leave the single market and keep all of its benefits. That is not possible." A Barnier comment aimed at Corbyn, perhaps?

ron I think you have your comment on JRM all backwards. DC pretending to know anything about football or contemporary music is try hard.

Anyway I'm off to talk to tend to my unicorn herd.

I'm not sure we are as close to the tipping point as many would like to believe.

We need to get to a point in mediaspace where it will be possible for all the current Brexiteers to be able to say - with a straight face - Well I never wanted Brexit anyway....

A bit like now, where you won't find a single Tory who ever supported the Poll Tax (despite Hansard).

Remember how Boris artfully "leaked" the pro-EU draft of his article, showing how he was "clearing his thoughts" (presumably it was a very short article ?). He has already laid some ground to be able to pop up and say "What ho chaps ! Wow, cripes, I'm so pleased I can rescue us from that nasty Brexit mess, what ? Thank goodness I was able to go in deep undercover and scupper their dastardly plot. Έξω από το τηγάνι στη φωτιά, ε ?"

The UK now being held up as an example of how not to do it ...

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/trudeau-says-ireland-and-canada-should-not-go-the-way-of-uk-and-us-1.3143534

Ireland and Canada could benefit by staying “open to the world” as their nearest neighbours, the United Kingdom and United States, turn “inward” , Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau said after a meeting with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar

(contd)

Wish I could have voted for Trudeau, the guy is just a legend ... (I may have a mini man crush there ). Argues science with reporters ... Helps the less able ... and has (impossibly) made Canada even nicer

I would swap our entire parliament for 1 Trudeau.

Perhaps that's a new measure of the person ? How many Trudueas are they worth ?

1 UK MP = 1/650 Trudeau ....

howabout I don't think Cameron suffers from insecurity, not even now when he faces the shitshow he is responsible for.

But with JRM the accent is a little too cutglass, the names of his children a little too pretentious, the rhetoric of Empire a little too obvious, the post ironic tableaux of Nanny, the Merc, the mini me, and a few spare heirs all a bit too much. Posh people who are secure in themselves would not bother with all that.

Lurking Even a million of some of our MPs would not be worth a Trudeau. Let's be clear, they have to be pretty much filled with 100% goodness and entirely free of wankyness. But yes I would even throw in a few Ken Clarkes, Anna Soubreys, maybe even a St Vince and the like though I am keeping Chukka, threesome?

I was actually raised to have a crush on Justin as my Mum exposed me to her crush on Pierre all the way through the sixties and seventies.....

We need to get to a point in mediaspace where it will be possible for all the current Brexiteers to be able to say - with a straight face - Well I never wanted Brexit anyway....

Quite so. We don't want the situation to be 52:48% the other way or it's still unfinished business. We need it to be more like at least 67:33%, where there is a clear mandate for not Brexitting. Furthermore, the Brexiters then can be told to shut up because they had their chance and spent a year/two years/however long messing around and doing nothing.

Furthermore, the Brexiters then can be told to shut up because they had their chance and spent a year/two years/however long messing around and doing nothing. Apart from trashing our reputation globally, dividing the country, and wasting a lot of money.

Posh people who are secure in themselves would not bother with all that.

When I used to work in London, with my DF, we had a customer who turned out to be a Lord (DeBretts, the lot). The only way we knew was when he signed a cheque. He was well spoken (in more than one language) but not to the chinlessness of JRM. His hobby horse (almost literally, as it turned out) was trying to get investment for British innovation.

Given his quite comprehensive European credentials (like a lot of "British" peers, he had relations in almost every European country) it's hardly surprising he's given up on the UK and moved stateside. Or so his wikipedia page suggests.

Having worked "in trade", I found it disgusting how the well-heeled would continually angle for a discount, whilst people struggling generally just paid up. I decided from an early age that if that was what money did to you, I'd rather be poor. (And unlike most prayers of youth, it seems that one was answered ).

Apart from trashing our reputation globally, dividing the country, and wasting a lot of money.

Yes, but I meant did nothing to bring Brexit about e.g. schemes to bring good quality work and investment to the north and west, Wales and Scotland, train up more health care staff...... and erm, whatever else was supposed to be good about Brexit.

Training up health care staff would be a good thing in itself, without the anti - immigrant rhetoric - there used to be no shortage of candidates for medicine, nursing and midwifery, so we shouldn't need to poach them from elsewhere - particularly the Indian Sub Continent and sub-Saharan Africa who need those staff.

I think we need An Event ("events, dear boy, events") that will allow Brexiteers to claim that things have changed sufficiently that the referendum result is no longer deemed to be the will of the people. I don't know off-hand what that could be (polls aren't sufficient, given how inaccurate they have been recently), but I can't see many turning around and admitting that they made an actual mistake in believing it was better to be outside the EU