Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Westministenders: Hey Hey we're the Monkies.

976 replies

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2017 12:39

Welcome to the Listening Parliament.

Have you noticed it yet?

The Three Monkeys of See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Speak No Evil have been in a bit of a fight with didn’t fair well. Its funny how politicians of all shades and levels are desperate to prove just how good they at listening and how they see the problems.

Its quite incredible to think that officials elected to serve the public are even in this position where they are having suddenly think about how they show they are listening. It rather shows up that they have been accustomed to telling the public what to think and what to believe.

What they are still to work out, is that in saying they are listening, they also have to demonstrate they are listening and be credible.

The trouble is, that even though some of the monkeys have been killed off, we still have a lot of monkeys in parliament. 'Monkey say, Monkey do' actions still lurk. Politicians who imitate others without understanding the consequences.

There is no point in listening if you are only listening to one group and don’t understand the consequences of simply repeating the words of others.

Politicians saying they are listening when you can find dozens of incidents where they have said completely the opposition, without having the gumption to explain they have changed their position and without having the grace to explain the evidence that has lead them to change that position rather undermines the idea they are listening.

U-Turns are not a bad thing. U-Turns can show that you were making an error but were wise enough to admit that and why you were wrong. U-Turns are bad when you fail to acknowledge your failings and only do it to chase votes. This is where cynicism creeps in and lack of trust in politicians occurs.

Listening also requires actions to reflect words. There is no good in saying one thing, if your actions don’t reflect that. This is where the Listening Parliament is already failing. And I’m sure we will see it more.

Above all, listening is only part of a conversation. A politician is supposed to be accountable. They are supposed to have their eyes open to evil, not deaf to it and not unwilling to speak inconvenient truths where they recognise the evil.

Any politician who tells you they listen needs to back it up somehow. They need to demonstrate and justify their positions accurately. If they don’t they aren’t listening properly.

Isn’t it funny how it was in Hartlepool that the monkey got hung for being a Frenchman? No one was there to explain differently.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Valentine2 · 06/07/2017 01:20

The Tories might well skip the damaged generation of DD, Bojo, Gove < shudders at Gove as PM > etc and go for a younger leader like Moggy

Please don't jinx it. We need to be extremely careful in what we wish for now.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 01:52

mother DD and Fox are asking each non-EU country or trade bloc to let us have a deal whereby the UK "inherits" exactly the same t&c as the EU has in the "grandfather" deal between the EU and that country.
(don't ask me why this isn't "father" or "mother" deal !)

So far, Canada has reportedly agreed to let the UK have the same terms as the EU now has in CETA.

In my earlier post, I used "grandfathering" which I've read elsewhere as the current buzzword, rather than "cut & paste".
Probably because what is involved is slightly more complicated than substituting "UK" for each occurrence of "EU" throughout the maybe 2,000 pages detailling a trade deal. DD may think otherwise.

Working in R&D, I know of "grandfathering" wrt a product in this sense:
under certain circumstances, justifying a new product satisfying an older technical regulation rather than the current one, by proving that the new product has the same characteristics as its predecessor in the areas relevant to the regulations,
(We do this if a new product is what we call a "facelift" to its predecessor product, so somewhere mid-cycle)

For me, this shows up how over-optimistic DD has been about non-EU trade deals, because for most countries that wish to export to us, the UK is a much smaller market than the EU
i..e does not have the same characteristics as its predecessor in the predecessor trade deal

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 02:15

Valentine I can't stand Moggy, because I don't wish to return to the Victorian society where he seems most comfortable.
Which is why he has advocated the hardest of Brexits: his nostalgia is for workhouses and the sharp pyramid-shaped class system.

I'm baffled why so many Mumsnetters seem to like him and - < shudders > - even fancy him.

How could he be a good PM of what seems to him to be a totally strange species:,
i.e. people who weren't born into super-wealthy families, with nannies and stately homes.

However, I suspect he would be the Tories' most effective choice, because he does have a brain and that mysterious charm
whereas the Tory generation of MPs above him are incredibly stupid, incredibly repugnant and in some cases clearly batshit too.

is the most talentless if only because the most wellknown alternatives would make the voters vomit.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/07/2017 02:17

Oops, ignore last sentence which crept in. Time I crept off

mathanxiety · 06/07/2017 02:34

And no questions to Steve Baker on how he benefited from the generosity of Richard Cook of the Constitutional Research Council, whose funding may have come from Saudi Arabia, which recently signed a huge arms deal with the UK. No questions on any possible quid pro quo expected from Baker..

HesterThrale · 06/07/2017 04:40

I'm paywalled out of this dt article, but I think it's suggesting Brexit is pointless because immigration to Britain is beginning to tail off anyway. Or rather, many people are beginning to return to their booming EU countries. Ironic and frustrating.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/07/05/mays-absurd-brexit-plan-sacrifices-economy-stop-eu-migrants/amp/

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2017 05:06

Rees-Mogg is vile.

The strange relic and English gentleman charm hides it. But he's still vile, out of touch, clueless and pampered.

It is impossible for someone of his ilk to act in the best interests of the electorate. Impossible. Far too privileged in a way that even the Royals aren't. (The Royal have to work hard on public relations and show empathy).

The mere fact this guy has six kids with the names they have smacks of his superiority and arrogance.

He's someone to poke fun of. He should not even be joked about as leader of s political party much less PM.

OP posts:
WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 06/07/2017 07:11

The age profile/split for the Brexit referendum is interesting. It makes me really angry

I totally agree with you about this. I know you can't ban the over 75s (random figure) from voting in a referendum.
But you could make the referendum advisory. So that when a split in voting preference is shown you can take it into account and not leap off a cliff into the unknown.

  • oh wait Hmm Angry
BiglyBadgers · 06/07/2017 07:13

I think the odd liking for Mogg some people seem to have comes from the same place as the affection fro BoJo. He is considered mildly amusing in an architect sort of way and the British just can't seem to shake the feudal idea that the aristocratic class is innately superior just for having been clever enough to have been born into wealth and title. Hmm

HesterThrale · 06/07/2017 07:13

Agree Red. Treating him as humorous / harmless is dangerous. That was our mistake with Boris.

HesterThrale · 06/07/2017 07:15

Great minds think alike Bigly! But you put it much better than me.

Petronius16 · 06/07/2017 07:27

I know you can't ban the over 75s

As an 80 year old who voted Remain (as did many similar aged friends), with two grandsons plus their Mum and Dad who voted Leave (on the basis of the £350m!), I don't believe what the Polls say about age split.

Obviously failed as a grandparent as well.

BiglyBadgers · 06/07/2017 07:29

I'm not sure where the word 'architect' came from in that post. I really don't have anything against architects, some of my best friends are architects. I meant to say archaic. Blush

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 06/07/2017 07:35

As an 80 year old who voted Remain (as did many similar aged friends)

With respect, personal experience probably isn't as reliable as the Polls. Obviously there are 80 year old who voted Remain and 18 year olds who voted leave. But there is good evidence there is an age spilt.

Lico · 06/07/2017 07:57

I saw this article yesterday in the Evening Standard. Kids travel on ID cards (free of charge) at the moment. Kids who come on school trips or short English courses to the UK might no longer be able to because parents will not want to spend over 50 euros on a passport just to cross the channel. This is going to affect many language schools in Bournemouth, Brighton etc.. And host families who used to get a few hundred pounds tax free each year will no longer 'host'. EFL is a huge business..

Westministenders: Hey Hey we're the Monkies.
Petronius16 · 06/07/2017 07:57

I did better than the polls in predicting result of Referendum and subsequent election.

Got the last one wrong though, much like polls really.

Polls just as unreliable as me I suppose. Smile

QuentinSummers · 06/07/2017 08:03

Well, I guess the uptick in leavebots on MN may be an encouraging sign that someone somewhere thinks we might reverse brexit. It's frustrating though.

HashiAsLarry · 06/07/2017 08:21

I love how you can tell something is going wrong in brexitopia by the sudden appearance of random leavers spouting little more than rehearsed rhetoric Grin

StainlessSteelButtercup · 06/07/2017 08:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

twofingerstoEverything · 06/07/2017 08:51

I love how you can tell something is going wrong in brexitopia by the sudden appearance of random leavers spouting little more than rehearsed rhetoric

Exactly. I doubt this only happens in China...

DividedKingdom · 06/07/2017 08:59

From today's FT...Grin

Westministenders: Hey Hey we're the Monkies.
ElenaGreco123 · 06/07/2017 09:24
Grin
QuentinSummers · 06/07/2017 09:27

twofingers That's a great article.

twofingerstoEverything · 06/07/2017 09:55

Yes, and there's evidence of these people on every forum, under every online news article, on FB etc.

frumpety · 06/07/2017 09:56

Is Rees-mogg a distant relative to the Fitzwilliam's who used to own Wentworth Woodhouse ?