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Brexit

Westministenders: The bookends to a year of political chaos. Just how far have we come?

992 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2017 18:50

The 15th June 2016.

The Thames was filled with a flotilla of boats in a publicity stunt for the Leave campaign to draw attention to fisheries. Nigel Farage and Kate Hoey in their heads thought they were Leonardo and Kate, but the moment was rather more titanic in nature and could not have been more Alan Partridge if they had tried. Coming up behind was Bob Gedolf in a shameful and cringeworthy display of swearing and abuse that really didn’t help the Remain camp in anyway. Largely unnoticed was a small boat with a family following it all unfold…

The next day things went from fiasco to horror.

Farage unveiled the Dog Whistle Poster and Jo Cox was murdered. And the UK seemed set on its course for 7 days later when the world was turned upside down by the referendum itself.

14th June 2017.

Fast forward 365 days later and another tragedy unfolded. This time of a very different nature but with no less political significance.
Grenfell.

A moment of national shame. A symbol of so many things that had come to pass in the previous twelve months.

The election just the previous week had changed the direction of travel we seemed to be headed and left the Prime Minister exposed and looking wildly out of touch. The Maybot was given one more chance.

And the Maybot seems to be failing the test of her party who had the grace to grant her a second chance.

The Queen dressed in the same shade of blue, May delivered her ‘victory speech’ in, ignored the security threat and visited the ranks of the poor and the forgotten. A deliberate message to May not to forget who she serves? A Queen who feels aggrieved and angry by May’s behaviour? Who knows.

As for Brexit. The government looks lost. Adrift. The ‘Fight of the Summer’ over the EU’s plan for talks sounds out the window despite the denials from the Brexit Department. Hard Brexit is still on the cards. Apparently. But what does anyone believe now? May’s and the Brexiteers domination of the agenda is shattered, its power starting to be questioned.

What next?

This evening the anger is building.

Who knows, what will happen. Some of it might be predictable, but the future is far from certain and we have definitely entered a new era. We just don’t know who will lead it, or what its ambition or what the end goal now is.

What we do know, more acutely than ever is that we are all human and the wise words of Jo Cox about having ‘More in Common’ ring though ever more strongly.

Once again we feel ‘on the brink’.

OP posts:
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Sostenueto · 16/06/2017 21:53

Found link hi to all. Thought I had killed thread!

HesterThrale · 16/06/2017 21:53

Yes thecold and hashi I think a lot of people just wanted to kick the Tories and hoped that a Labour Brexit (if it happened) wouldn't be as bad.

My elation of last week has tempered slightly. This will be a long process. Perhaps we all need to be careful not to invest too much hope in a potential Labour Govt. We could be disappointed if we elevate the idea too highly.

Mistigri · 16/06/2017 21:58

Why did committed Remainers flock to the pro-Brexit Labour Party?'

I have a lot of Labour supporters among my UK friends, almost all of whom are remainers. The answer to this question isn't very complicated, tbh: Brexit has fallen right down the list of most people's priorities. It's not that they have "got over it" but that there are so many other issues they feel strongly about. For them, the election was about the NHS, education (and other public services) and social justice. There was a fair bit of tactical voting too, with many who would otherwise have voted LD or Green opting for Labour in the hope of unseating a Tory.

My ILs - North Midlands, in their 80s, comfortable but not wealthy, politically middle of the road - voted Labour and during the campaign came to like Corbyn. They have been floating voters in the past (mostly Lib Dem or Labour) and voted remain in the referendum. The LDs had no hope in their constituency but they voted Labour out of conviction not primarily for tactical reasons. I think that TV coverage during the election did a lot to change their minds: it's easy to demonise Corbyn in the print media, but much harder to do so when voters can see him in person on TV. My ILs are fairly average middle England voters - if Corbyn can appeal to them then he can win an election. I find this astonishing, but perhaps it demonstrates the danger of using the right wing media to demonise your political opponent.

everthibkyouvebeenconned · 16/06/2017 22:00

I think it will again depend on how the Tories move. They will probably think it better May stays in the short term.

We regards to unrest. They will be wrong
However none of them are capable of making any positive change. Apart from Kem Clarke or his ilk. Any why would they want to. Unless they were allowed within an interim x party government

But most are too selfish to put country before themselves.

woman12345 · 16/06/2017 22:02

Found link hi to all. Thought I had killed thread!

Nothing kills this thread, yet, Sostenueto unless you've got contacts in the May gov, and plans to help with abolition with ECHR, that you'd like to share? Grin

This is a persistent and resistant thread. Smile

HashiAsLarry · 16/06/2017 22:03

I must say that if there was any chance of labour winning in my area I would have voted for them. That would have been for more hope with Starmer negotiating and anti austerity. Mainly for nhs and education reasons.

Gumpendorf · 16/06/2017 22:04

Oops, I thought the old thread was slow. Thanks, Red. Lovely summary and tribute to Jo Cox.

Bringing this over from the old thread: Newsnight interview with May at 10.30pm. She was getting on with what needed to be done....

woman12345 · 16/06/2017 22:05

Think we may have moved beyond party politics, folks.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2017 22:06

I feel this lack of organization, this lackadaisical response from May and the govt is because the Grenfell residents were mostly poor; even those who owned their homes seem to be just managing.

More, they are mostly poor people of Colour.
So absolutely not May's kind of people
Not Home Counties at all

They are regarded as a burden to the exchequer, living in social housing, some on benefits and / or NMW.
So the govt was reluctant to take time away from discussions with the DUP, or football matches in France

I'd expect a far more urgent response if that had been a block of luxury £2 million flats

But of course, management of a luxury block would work for the residents association, take the advice of fire inspectors, have a sprinkler system, the extra 5k for inflammable cladding
So although I can remember quite a few fatal highrise fires over the last several years, I can't think of any with wealthier residents, to compare the response

woman12345 · 16/06/2017 22:06

Great and awful interview there Grumpendorf. I have no idea what May is, and I suspect neither does she

RedToothBrush · 16/06/2017 22:09

Jack Hardy‏*@JackHardy9*
Crowds at a candlelit vigil for the Grenfell Tower victims begin to sing Bob Marley, nearly three days since the fire began

OP posts:
HesterThrale · 16/06/2017 22:10

misti maybe you're right and Brexit's gone off radar for many. For a while anyway, till it begins to bite.

Last week, at least one elderly person in my family didn't vote Tory for the first time ever. Concerned about NHS etc. But I think the shadow of Brexit and the seeds of distrust were still fermenting at the back of their minds. Maybe the Ref was when the rot set in.

D'you know, I still have a strange feeling that Brexit will never happen.

woman12345 · 16/06/2017 22:11

That block was very mixed BigChoc. Traditional proletarian estates have been eliminated a la 'Shameless' . Divide and rule and all that.

Some flats were privately owned, many who died were highly educated professionals on modest incomes, some were in proletarian jobs, some were refugees. It represented London. Many were brown or black, if that's relevant.

Lammy was in tears on Channel 4 news. It's happened once too many now.

LurkingHusband · 16/06/2017 22:12

I voted Labour to avoid a Tory future, but I am a committed Remainer.

If the Labour party is honest, pragmatic, and logical, I believe they will realise that everything they want to achieve will be impossible against the economic disaster any Brexit would be.

Sostenueto · 16/06/2017 22:13

Hi woman12345. (Waves frantically over familiar crowd). Xx

Peregrina · 16/06/2017 22:13

I went out and the other thread filled up.

Just seen a clip with Emily Maitlis and May on Newsnight. Emily wasn't letting May get away with anything. May as usual was talking at her, not to her and not listening. She reminded me of my old Headmistress, who was accepted as being a poor head.

Valentine2 · 16/06/2017 22:13

In this clip, you can see her loosing it for one micro second before regaining composure (the Maybot algorithm of some sort?) and start repeating what she is supposed to repeat.
I feel sorry for her these days.

NancyWake · 16/06/2017 22:14

Many pissed off Remainers voted Labour to vote against the government and because their Brexit version was softer. Starmer said as much in the FT, Labour are obviously aware of it

HashiAsLarry · 16/06/2017 22:15

It represented London.
Which is why it's very wrong according to certain outlets and viewpoints Angry

NancyWake · 16/06/2017 22:17

I don't think Brexit's gone off anyone's radar.

In fact, I think what many people have taken to be an endorsement of Corbyn is simply an anti-Tory position. Corbyn happened to be there.

NancyWake · 16/06/2017 22:17

And anti- hard Brexit

woman12345 · 16/06/2017 22:17

If there's one country I like round this manor, it's London, the other stuff is pretty odd really.

HashiAsLarry · 16/06/2017 22:19

. Corbyn happened to be there.
It took Corbyn to do that though. I'm not sure Ed would have managed it. And I have no bones with Ed.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/06/2017 22:22

Tory policy was "no deal" better than a bad deal
Labour said "no deal" is a bad deal and prioritised the economy
There was no major Remain party to choose, just the LDems, who are not a serious choice atm to form the next govt

Some of those who wanted Remain voted against the Tories to prioritise the economy over an ideologically pure Brexit
Ashcroft or YouGov found that some Tory Remainers voted Labour for this
Of course Labour Remainers plus LDems Remainers who voted tactically

Then looks like around 60% of UKIP voters returned to Labour, 40% to Tory
So, even most Labour Leave voters prioritise the nhs, public services, restoring the wefare state, Corbyn's manifesto over at least a hard Brexit.
Maybe some are beginning to realise Brexit isn't the answer they thought it was, at least not under the Tories.