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Brexit

What exactly is a "Soft Brexit"?

452 replies

optionalrationale · 25/05/2017 18:07

Isn't the notion of a "Soft Brexit" just a forlorn hope that "Brexit Somehow Means Remain"?

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CeciledeVolanges · 29/05/2017 21:34

And make no mistake, the Eurocrats will still have all the power afterwards. None of them will be British Eurocrats and we won't be obliged by law to follow EU regulations, but if we want to sell to our biggest and nearest neighbours we will have to do what they say, mostly, because the power imbalance is such that it is like one minor, dependent child trying to negotiate being an independent emancipated minor with the entire rest of their adult family.

optionalrationale · 29/05/2017 21:35

Today 21:12 Peregrina
it is exactly what some Leavers will have voted for

Can you name a single Leave supporter who before the June 2016 Referendum advocated

  1. Continued unlimited EU migration
  2. Continuing to pay billions into EU coffers
  3. Continuing to comply with every EU regulation
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CeciledeVolanges · 29/05/2017 21:37

No! Norway doesn't have to comply with every single EU regulation! And immigration isn't unlimited at the moment!

Kaija · 29/05/2017 21:40

Leave supporters said it was Project Fear even to suggest those things were issues.

On the other hand, I don't remember any leave campaigners advocating leaving with no deal and falling back on WTO rules.

Bearbehind · 29/05/2017 21:42

OP, can you name a single Leave supporter who outlined the consequences of your 3 points and came up with reasons why the benefits outweighed those consequences.

Don't worry. I'm not expecting an actual answer Hmm

Peregrina · 29/05/2017 21:45

Can you name a single Leave supporter who before the June 2016 Referendum advocated

Personally I only know a couple who were prepared to admit to voting Leave.

I didn't have your list of questions to hand, so I couldn't ask them. One offered the opinion that it was to put the Great back into Britain, unaware that this was a geographical term, so it hasn't been lost. The other didn't give reasons.

You have your own reasons, but whether the other 17 million agree with you is anyone's guess.

optionalrationale · 29/05/2017 21:49

Today 21:33 Peregrina

Why don't you start a thread asking other Leavers what their idea of Brexit is?

Why don't you?

Here's my own view of what Brexit is

  1. No longer having unlimited EU migration regardless of the pressure this places on housing, schooling, doctors appointments, hospital beds etc et
  2. No longer paying billions into EU budgets
  3. No longer having to comply with every stupid EU regulation
  4. Having our laws made by people we elect directly
  5. Being able to get rid of the Exec branch of government (through the ballot box)
  6. Not having to pay the on average €850,000 pension for every Eurocrat.
  7. FRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMM!
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optionalrationale · 29/05/2017 21:55

Today 21:45 Peregrina
Personally I only know a couple who were prepared to admit to voting Leave. I didn't have your list of questions to hand, so I couldn't ask them

Here you go, pet... Happy to help.

Can you name a single Leave supporter who before the June 2016 Referendum advocated

  1. Continued unlimited EU migration
  2. Continuing to pay billions into EU coffers
  3. Continuing to comply with every EU regulation HTHGrin
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Bearbehind · 29/05/2017 21:56

You keep spouting your nonsense OP, even the Prime Minister won't deny the fact it's a fucking disaster waiting to happen but she's ploughing on because 'it's the will of the people'

optionalrationale · 29/05/2017 21:59

Today 21:42 Bearbehind
OP, can you name a single Leave supporter who outlined the consequences of your 3 points and came up with reasons why the benefits outweighed those consequences.

Yes, dear, dear Bearbehind,.... ME !!!!!!

And here are just seven benefits....

  1. No longer having unlimited EU migration regardless of the pressure this places on housing, schooling, doctors appointments, hospital beds etc et
  2. No longer paying billions into EU budgets
  3. No longer having to comply with every stupid EU regulation
  4. Having our laws made by people we elect directly
  5. Being able to get rid of the Exec branch of government (through the ballot box)
  6. Not having to pay the on average €850,000 pension for every Eurocrat.
  7. FRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOMMMMMMM
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optionalrationale · 29/05/2017 22:01

Today 21:56 Bearbehind
You keep spouting your nonsense OP, even the Prime Minister won't deny the fact it's a fucking disaster waiting to happen but she's ploughing on because 'it's the will of the people

You're starting to sound a wee bit cwoss again Bearbehind..We don't want to be a gwumpy Bearbehind in the morning now do we, hun?

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fakenamefornow · 29/05/2017 22:04

And here are just seven benefits....

I fear you're going to be very disappointed op :)

twofingerstoEverything · 29/05/2017 22:10

Leavers voted to not be in the EU. Norway is not in the EU. What's the problem?

Exactly this.

twofingerstoEverything · 29/05/2017 22:15

You're starting to sound a wee bit cwoss again Bearbehind..We don't want to be a gwumpy Bearbehind in the morning now do we, hun?

And youre beginning to sound like a Grade A goady shit-stirrer again. What IS your problem? You won. Get over it.

CeciledeVolanges · 29/05/2017 22:21

You know we can't get rid of the executive branch, or choose it? It is the legislative branch that we get rid of at the ballot box. And we can't actually choose to get rid of them, they have to pass a motion of no confidence

Peregrina · 29/05/2017 22:40

Why don't I ask Leavers? Because I have got better things to do with my time than ask your stupid questions. You are the one who needs to know whether your opinions are shared by others.

I have better questions to ask:
Do you wish to see the UK's medical and scientific research base smashed?
Do you want to see the NHS collapse because we cannot staff it?
Do you want to see our volume car industry e.g. BMW collapse?

sodablackcurrant · 29/05/2017 22:50

If immigration is the biggie, then the Norway solution will not work. Ever.

Access to the Single Market is contingent on agreeing to freedom of movement.

By any stretch of the imagination, does anyone think the Norway solution will be granted to Britain without free movement being a prerequisite?

Ha fucking ha.

lonelyplanetmum · 29/05/2017 23:31

And here are just seven benefits....

Optional's seven wonders of the Brexit world. R u ok Hun? You are being irrational.

You must stop repeating the chimera that Bojo,Gove,Leadsome,IDS were spinning a year ago. They LIED remember.

You are better than them .....or are you?

With respect to your first wonder.

a) We only have 5% of our population from the EU and that's declining already.

b) We need that 5 % immigration acutely. We have a recruitment crisis in many areas,NHS, agriculture etc. I have posted links before to years of proper research. This established EU immigration does not increase unemployment for the UK born population. In fact EU workers boosts the economy significantly.

c) EU movement rules ARE limited. They are limited for three months whilst seeing if that person's labour is needed. It's about movement of labour. We can require registration of presence and monitor employment (but your Supreme leader chose not to).

d) The 5% EU migrants we have are mostly young and fit (fnarr fnarr) .They are not putting our public services under significant pressure.

e)The NHS etc is so pressured because of the unprecedented headline deficit of £2.45 billion due to underfunding from this government and previous governments.

f) The additional NHS costs then, were caused primarily by austerity, inflation,cuts and the growing and ageing native population. Surely you can see with so many oldies, it's not the young EU workers who are taking up the beds?

g) There is some additional pressure on the NHS from migration from Outside the EU but the biggest factors are the ageing population and austerity.

h) EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff. There is already an acute shortage of doctors and nurses. The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) already told the Government to move fast to prevent staffing levels hitting unsafe levels.

i) Within six years of our departure, there will be a nursing staff shortage of between 26,000 and 42,000. We will have to desperately recruit in the Philippines and other parts of Asia. However why Leavers love Filipino nurses and are so opposed to Spanish,Italian and Romanian nurses Seems irrational.

(Oh forgot we soon won't have an NHS anyway. Getting rid of hard working, economy boosting forriners ( 5% of population) is more important dontcha know.)

lonelyplanetmum · 30/05/2017 00:04

P.S.

Oh and optional irrational your second wonder about EU budgets....

The. European.Union. contribution.we.agreed.to.make. is. 1.2%.of. annual spending.

On a pie chart of UK spending the contribution is almost too small to see, it's tiny.

Let's agree to quote figures in percentage terms which is more helpful. Your billions is actually only 1.2%.

In return for that 1.2% we get:
🔹Joint control of €142 billion p.a.
🔹 Access to a $16.6 Trillion a year open market

(Your beloved Hard Brexit will not replace that it really won't. Even Australia has been back pedalling about our trading relationship....and Trump has trumped our Saudi Arms deal hopes.)

annandale · 30/05/2017 01:58

Oh thanks for calling my view honest. Any thoughts about Daniel Hannan and all the other experts who said we would definitely stay in the single market and all would be roses? They said soft Brexit was the obvious answer and would still achieve their goals. Do you think they lied?

optionalrationale · 30/05/2017 04:48

Alternative Brexit models
Norway Switzerland Canada Turkey WTO
Single market member Full Partial No No No
Tariffs None None None Reduced Yes
Unlimited EU Migrants Yes Yes No No No
In customs union No No No Yes No
Pay into EU budgets Yes Yes No No No

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optionalrationale · 30/05/2017 04:52

lonelymum

Pas que aves vous stopped parleing le Fracais? Pour moi pour parler le Francais est une honoeur tres formidable!

Le fromage est sur la pont!

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optionalrationale · 30/05/2017 05:01

Yesterday 22:10 twofingerstoEverything
Leavers voted to not be in the EU. Norway is not in the EU. What's the problem?

Exactly this.

Yes, thank you, twofingerstoEverything, thank you for giving me this rare, rare opportunity to point out the problems with the Norway deal, again...Grin.

For anyone not yet aware (and remember Remoaners are the super educated ones, young, intelligent, incisive, fast on the uptake and clever)...

While you are CORRECT in stating that Norway is not in the EU. There are 3 BIG PROBLEMS with the Norway option for the UK

PROBLEM 1 We would still have unlimited EU migration
PROBLEM 2 We still have to pay billions into EU coffers
PROBLEM 3 We would still be subject to every EU regulation

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optionalrationale · 30/05/2017 05:09

Yesterday 22:21 CeciledeVolanges
You know we can't get rid of the executive branch, or choose it? It is the legislative branch that we get rid of at the ballot box. And we can't actually choose to get rid of them, they have to pass a motion of no confidence

Every member of the UK Government's Executive branch is also an MP in the House of Commons. You might be a tad late for this GE, but next time round (before 2022), there is absolutely NOTHING stopping you from standing against the PM directly against her in her Parliamentary constituency. You could stand CeciledeVolanges RETURN Party candidates in every constituency and not only get rid of the entire UK cabinet, but also have a stonking majority in the House of Commons. You could easily pass legislation to have your second referendum then.

And win it.Smile

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optionalrationale · 30/05/2017 05:34

You get rid of the UK Prime Minister as an ordinary citizen voter. No equivalent mechanism exists for me to get rid of Junkers.

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