LibDems wanting a second referendum - Please explain the logic

[optionalrationale]

The LibDems believe the UK should remain part of the EU. While they accept the outcome of the the June 2016 Referendum, they also want the final terms of our exit deal to go to a second Referendum in the hope that we say "OK let's Remain after all".

Can anyone explain the logic of this position at this stage of the negotiations? Surely this encourages the EU to make our exit terms the very worst they can make them, basically holding us to ransom until the second referendum would be deliver the capitulation they and the LibDems are hankering for.

Yesterday 23:04 RedToothBrush
It's quite something when it's openly said that campaign strategies in a democracy include demotivating certain groups so much they don't turn out to vote. It's not just apathy but deliberately engineered apathy to make people feel hopeless and like their voice is worthless. Cos that's really healthy in a democracy

That is a good point. Democracy in the Institution of the EU is clearly not healthy but it was set up this way and there is no mechanism to change this. More and more EU citizens clearly realise this for themselves. I have never campaigned for anyone to abstain in any election (although I do think it is a legitimate right to do so). The fact that 82% of Czech citizens don't bother to vote for their MEPs is nothing to do with me. Apathy may well have a lot to do with. But the killer question behind apathy is "What's the point?. And they would be exactly right.

I make a personal choice not to vote in elections to the EU parliament because I don't want my vote or even a spoiled paper to be misconstrued as my having any kind of faith in the institution.

Anon213

I dont support UKIP however despite being the largest EU party in the UK have zero power to initiate laws in the EU. Its irrelevant how they vote if they can only vote on things that Juncker says they are allowed to affect. A case of "Of course you choose a sweetie, but the choice is between the orange and the apple." What happens when the choice is between debt and debt. Which was rejected by Greece but imposed by Juncker?

Excellent, excellent point.

I don't support UKIP

Glad you're on board with that plan for getting behind Brexit, optional. Now if we could only get the PM and the rest of the Brexiteers to sign up we might be in to something.

"And any Answers, Promises, Guarantees of substances need to be discussed and agreed through a process."

Quite. Setting out to be "bloody difficult" to impress your frothers at home is not a good start.

And meanwhile, in the real world:

www.brexitrecord.com/

I look forward to the events unfolding when May, if she survives as PM, is completely unable to accommodate every Leaver's wishes. Her red line seems to be immigration. How is she going to accommodate those industries which rely on immigrants for staff? Fruit picking? No good drafting in the army of pensioners - a majority of us are no longer fit enough to do the work. Health care? By all means train up more Doctors, Nurses and Midwives, but this can't be done in two years, and oh, the burseries for nursing and midwifery have been cut. Just two areas where the soundbites she is so found of are going to deliver precisely zilch.

Found = fond.

Tumbleweed on the sunlit uplands.

http://www.cityam.com/264467/brexit-has-put-foreign-workers-off-uk-tech-jobs?utmsource=dlvr.it&utmm_medium=dvTwitter

I look forward to the events unfolding when May, if she survives as PM, is completely unable to accommodate every Leaver's wishes.

I think we have all got so used to seeing Remain or Leave as a badge of identity that we all forget that one day it will be a reality. Assuming that the reports of the Juncker dinner are correct it appears that May's team actually don't have a clue.

This from Boris Johnson is simultaneously funny and terrifying:

Carlo Calenda, an Italian economics minister, said it was insulting that Johnson had told him during a recent meeting that Italy would grant Britain access to the EU’s single market “because you don’t want to lose prosecco exports”.
“He basically said: ‘I don’t want free movement of people but I want the single market,’” he told Bloomberg. “I said: ‘No way.’ He said: ‘You’ll sell less prosecco.’ I said: ‘OK, you’ll sell less fish and chips, but I’ll sell less prosecco to one country and you’ll sell less to 27 countries.’ Putting things on this level is a bit insulting.”

Today 07:40 Kaija
Setting out to be "bloody difficult" to impress your frothers at home is not a good start

I think the Junkers leak was the provocation for that. Although some public tough talk has to be expected...

Why? Its an important, highly complex negotiation. Not a boxing match. The trash talk is just pathetic, and is poisoning our chances of a good deal not helping them.

Today 07:47 Kaija
And meanwhile, in the real world..

If it is all doom and gloom, have you accepted that we will actually leave the EU or are you campaigning for a second ref?

Squishy
Do you condone the behaviour of Junkers and Barnier?

Yannis Varoufakis has described their stance as
Phase 1 - Give us everything we are asking for unconditionally
Phase 2 - Only then will we hear what you want

Why would they do anything any different OP?

We are leaving - they didn't initiate this.

We have much more to lose than them and they know it.

The sooner you and your merry Brexiteers realise that the better,

Well in that case, it makes a hard Brexit more likely

And who wins by doing that?

Do I condone them?
I certainly don't like Juncker very much. But him being a twat doesn't change my opinion of May and her inner circle.
The leak was cynical, and I don't condone that but there are going to be many more leaks when the talks get started whether we like them or not. There are so many people involved! Maybe if May and Davies acted in a competent manner and knew what they were talking about at dinner, then the leak would have been much less interesting.
I fully understand May releasing a bland statement following the leak in question, but standing on Downing street like she's just made a declaration of war? A weird response, which just blew the story up even bigger. Just as she knew it would, and she knew it would be lapped up by a certain type of voter, which is why she did it: Damaging to Brexit negotiations, but good for winning votes. Party before country, yet again.

There will be a degree of public grandstanding to appeal to their respective bases. Although, TM is clearly not liked by the Remainers of MN, in real life I think she will have the majority of the nation wishing her well.

Give it up OP.

This isn't a fucking tea party.

The nation 'wishing her well' means nothing.

Would it help the negotiations if we all sent her twee Hallmark cards as well?