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Brexit

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently

996 replies

RedToothBrush · 05/05/2017 22:39

Theresa May has declared war on the EU. She is going to be a ‘bloody difficult woman’ after she got caught out by a highly predictable leak.

Apparently, the EU are trying to rig an election she seems almost dead cert to win. They deliberately timed the leak to interfere with an election May decided the timing of. May was not supposed to be at the dinner, but after she announced the election she decided that she had to get in on the act for some reason. Wildly speculating here, but could this be because she wanted the political mileage herself?

No it wasn't a preplanned strategy. Don't be stupid. That would suggest they had the foggiest clue and a plan. Nope, the war declaration was an opportunist damage limitation exercise, used to maximise political capital.

She has now even further alienated the EU. It seems difficult to conceive how any deal will be done. Instead it looks like the election is trying to set us up to crash out. Whether the ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’ happens to make the 3 page Tory Manifesto remains to be seen.

This would leave EU nationals and British national aboard in legal and social limbo.

There is also a feud building over the Brexit leaving bill, which is steadily climbing. We can not progress to the second stage of Brexit without resolving this. Again, this seems unlikely.

Thirdly, a settlement with Ireland is a top priority for the EU, and plans are being drawn up to make allowances for any potential United Ireland. This is a subject that is still to be talked about on any level really. May has been much more interested in the fate of Scotland and battling with Nicola Sturgeon.

That’s the thing. May is like the playground bully who goes around going “Do you wanna scrap ?, Do ya? DO YA?” and generally throws their weight around and most of the time gets their own way as a result. The trouble with the strategy is when the bigger kid comes along and thumps the bully, for being a cocky little shit and doesn’t like their kid brother getting picked on.

The trouble is that May is setting it up, to try and make it look like the poor little Britain has been picked on to her parents, so they go around accusing the big kid of all sorts rather than admitting their little darling is a nasty little shit.

It’s not going to end well is it? You can’t help but feel that at some point they’ll all end up in the Headmasters office and the WTO/UN/International Courts will rule against us for being a bunch of dickheads. No doubt May, will stick to character, hold a grudge and demand to leave them or say they have no authority over the UK.

That or we really will end up declaring war on Spain over Gibraltar. By accident of course. Probably to keep the ConKip party together and avoid a split.

Rule Britannia. Britannia rules. Erm, not a lot these days.

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Mistigri · 06/05/2017 21:35

French press has been very grownup about the latest leaks - not that there seems to be much to them: lots of evidence that Macron was, indeed, running a political campaign, plus some crudely-faked documents with Russian fingertips all over them.

It's been hilarious watching the desperate alt-reich trolls on Twitter today.

squoosh · 06/05/2017 21:42

Yes the alt reich wankers, few of whom speak French, have been in overdrive today using Google translate praying for some bombshells. French people just seem to be sniggering at them, as well as no doubt doing a bit of Gallic shrugging.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/05/2017 21:51

Olennas I know many Republicans claimed Obamacare made workers lazy; they just hate paying anything for other people, especially the poor.
Being poor is of course a sign of moral degeneracy.

iirc, the cost of employee health insurance was dragging down the big auto manufacturers like GM, until they were allowed to cut their liabilities, especially to their pensioners.

That's another issue: employers weren't just burdened by insuring current employees - and their families - but also their much more expensive pensioners.

squoosh · 06/05/2017 21:57

'GOP Rep. Labrador speaks with constituents upset over health care bill: "Nobody dies because they don't have access to health care"

🤔

woman12345 · 06/05/2017 22:00

Being poor is of course a sign of moral degeneracy.

Alabama congressman: “People who lead good lives” don’t have preexisting conditions
Mo Brooks says people without pre-existing conditions have "done things the right way
www.salon.com/2017/05/02/alabama-congressman-people-who-lead-good-lives-dont-have-preexisting-conditions/

And being a woman is definitely a pre existing condition. Abortion not covered under new plans.

Just like in NI. Angry

OlennasWimple · 06/05/2017 22:17

Being poor is of course a sign of moral degeneracy

This sums it up so well. And of course it is an undercurrent in much of the right wing rhetoric here, but it's ten times more virulent stateside, where I have given up trying to get my head around comfortably off people in union protected jobs declaring that anyone who doesn't earn enough to afford their own health insurance is just lazy and not really trying hard enough...

The smart thing that someone (Republican, presumably) somewhere did was to include Medicare deductions as a separate line on payslips, so that people in employment can see exactly how much is being taken from their salary to provide coverage for those who are not. It makes it so much easier to remove

woman12345 · 06/05/2017 22:27

Theresa May’s secretive plans to replace NHS in England with private US healthcare system Kaiser Permanente

tompride.wordpress.com/2017/04/23/theresa-mays-secret-plans-to-replace-nhs-england-with-private-us-healthcare-system-kaiser-permanente/

HashiAsLarry · 06/05/2017 22:27

“People who lead good lives” don’t have preexisting conditions
Isn't a c-section now a pre-existing condition too? How many people must have been real arseholes to deserve emergency c-sections. Though according to Trump's gay sex/pre-marital sex/abortion lines...

OlennasWimple · 06/05/2017 22:33

Kaiser are at least, in the context of US health providers, one of the good guys. If I had to choose, it would be Kaiser

PlectrumElectrum · 06/05/2017 22:34

Place mark

Gumpendorf · 06/05/2017 22:50

Kaiser Permanente - now there's an interesting concept for the Brexiters who want French text removed from passports to get their heads round!

woman12345 · 06/05/2017 22:52

Disappointed Kaiser Permanente 'customers'( or patients as they used to be called when there was a national health service), and shocking costs:
kaiserartechinvestigation.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/kaiser-permanente-flooded-by-complaints/

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/05/05/trumps-hypocrisy-on-the-opioid-epidemic-earns-bipartisan-outrage-and-rightfully-so/?utm_term=.37df6299e2df
Opioid addiction seems to be an integral part of US 'healthcare'.

Peregrina · 06/05/2017 23:13

It means
stopping many non-essential treatments on the NHS,

Already gone in many cases.

making in-patients pay for food,
Could be chaotic, but many wouldn't mind, given the quality of some hospital food.

charging for certain GP services and
reducing the massive exemptions from prescription charges, which should be means-tested.

Not designed to appeal to the pensioner market then, who are one set of major beneficiaries. MInd you, this is an area which I think could be tightened up. DM was being prescribed paracetamol and ended up stockpiling the stuff. She didn't need the amount prescribed and for that item could easily afford to pay. Someone should have had the sense to stop putting it on the prescription. On the other hand, she and DF barely made any use of the NHS for the first 50 years of its existence.

An American friend tells me that Kaiser Permanente is definitely one of the better insurers, but she stressed, it's not the NHS.

I wonder whether Theresa May buys into the idea that she didn't lead a good life, having had the onset of Type 1 diabetes a few years ago? For her, it's fine, with a wealthy husband to pay for treatment.

This is an area where Labour should be making as much political capital as possible.

Kaija · 06/05/2017 23:25

"When, inevitably, hacked emails are found on JC, we know how May's press will react."

I'd say JC is exactly where Putin wants him for now.

HashiAsLarry · 06/05/2017 23:43

DM was being prescribed paracetamol and ended up stockpiling the stuff. She didn't need the amount prescribed and for that item could easily afford to pay.
Our area stopped prescribing paracetamol somewhere between 4 and 5 years ago. I'd been admitted and sent home with a giant box of the stuff that wasn't needed over 5 years ago, but a few months later I ended up in again and they sent weren't going to send me home with it. I was fine with that largely as I still had a stockpile but it took me asking 4 nurses whether I was allowed to take paracetamol with the other pills to get an answer as they kept saying 'we don't prescribe it anymore' and wandering off before I could say that I just wanted to know I wouldn't be overdosing. Clearly some people had not been happy about that change and been giving the nurses a hard time.

annandale · 06/05/2017 23:44

OK, which hospital food will be paid for by patients and which won't? If you have to have a diet recommended for you due to your health condition, presumably you won't have to pay? Suppose I say 'well you don't need the recommended different diet any more, you can have normal food' but they can't afford to buy it at hospital prices, what then? Will I end up under pressure to keep them on special diets longer? What about people who can manage some normal items but not others - do they pay or not? Lactose intolerant? Does it depend how bad your symptoms are whether you pay or not? Vegetarian? Why? Choice, religious reasons, allergy? Who pays, who doesn't pay?

Just seems crazy that everyone apparently hates non-clinical NHS jobs being created, but everyone also loves adding new rules to NHS provision that will require a whole lot of bureaucracy to administer.

HashiAsLarry · 06/05/2017 23:44

When, inevitably, hacked emails are found on JC, we know how May's press will react.
It won't happen. Sadly Putin doesn't need to involve himself here, the masses are already more than willing Sad

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 06/05/2017 23:44

I wonder whether Theresa May buys into the idea that she didn't lead a good life, having had the onset of Type 1 diabetes a few years ago? For her, it's fine, with a wealthy husband to pay for treatment.I wonder whether Theresa May buys into the idea that she didn't lead a good life, having had the onset of Type 1 diabetes a few years ago? For her, it's fine, with a wealthy husband to pay for treatment.

Type 2 is the "feckless fatties" form of diabetes. Type 1 is auto-immune and frequently diagnosed in childhood.

HashiAsLarry · 06/05/2017 23:49

Just saying

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently
Kaija · 06/05/2017 23:55

Quite. Or alternatively:

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently
CopperRose · 07/05/2017 00:00

I'd rather be told how it is by a wolf openly being a wolf, than by this:

Westministenders: Its WAR. Huh!? What is that good for? Negotiations apparently
HashiAsLarry · 07/05/2017 00:04

Thanks for posting the Tory manifesto copper.

Cailleach1 · 07/05/2017 00:05

I had better own up and declare I had an emergency C-section to give warning of my character. I always thought it was a medical reason. The obstetrician forgot to mention my baby's was in trouble because I was a reprobate chance would be a fine thing . What did he know? Experts!

"Farage called the EU 'bad people....thugs and bullies"

May and the Con's are plugging away at this narrative now to firmly put the blame on the EU if they walk away with no deal. They pissed around for 9 months, hiring lawyers to try and not go through parliament. They ruled out practically everything. No single market membership, no customs union, no Euratom. But no plan either. Yet, they can't seem to accept they will be like Canada.

The issue of huffing and puffing with strength and resolve in negotiations is irrelevant to the EU framework. They have issued a directive on how to proceed and they will stick to the negotiating principles contained in it. I believe they have to. And they don't give better deals to non-EU members than EU members. The parliament resolution is to make sure May can't be a time waster. The 3 issues have to be dealt with first. There are two years. The clock is ticking. I don't think the British gov't have prepared or are prepared to deal with the issues. I hope to be proven wrong. If they do as mentioned from the famous dinner and try to walk away without paying a penny, I have no doubt they will end up in a court somewhere. Disorderly brexit and potentially defaulters. That means no transitional 3 years to help business adapt. And then no FTA? Haven't different gov't departments been told to assess the effects of walking away with no deal? If they do walk, it will not because of the EU. Although they will pretend it is.

The EU will not unravel it's legislation and negotiating principles to facilitate the UK choosing benefits without the rights and obligations that go along with it. It is dishonest for the Tories to give people to believe the unattainable is on offer from the EU. I really think May et al are giving the impression you just ride into town like a cowboy and they will give you a better deal than members against their own directives because you just stare them down. They have created great expectations that are contrary to what will be on offer. They know it is not on offer. If it wasn't on offer as a member, it will certainly not be on offer to a non-member.

The EU have taken control now to try end the uncertainty. The Commission Brexit directive on the instruction of the Council and the Parliament resolution. If there is no engagement, time will march on and it will all come to an abrupt end. There must be a lot of people hoping this won't happen.

www.politico.eu/article/eu-brexit-directives-what-they-said-and-what-they-meant/

Isn't it ironic that some areas in Scotland who are being shielded from Tory austerity, like the bedroom tax, are voting for the Tories?

Cailleach1 · 07/05/2017 00:09

Looking forward to a French presidential result not going to the dodgy one.

Fair play to the French electoral commission for coming out about the hacking by Putin .

HPFA · 07/05/2017 06:57

reducing the massive exemptions from prescription charges, which should be means-tested.

My partner gets free prescriptions because he is hypothyroid. I did find it odd that he gets all prescriptions free as well as the thyroid med. He has another long-term condition for which other sufferers have to pay charges so does seem rather unfair.

However, whilst I'd be happy to see the system reformed and made fairer that's entirely different to the sort of "reform" that Right wing Tories would want to do.