How can anyone defend TM right now?

[Bearbehind]

And I ask that as a life long Tory voter

• She repeatedly, categorically ruled out having a GE now, then completely u-turned
• she is too spineless to participate in tv debates
• she won't deny triple lock pensions will be scrapped
• she won't deny the freeze on tax hikes will be scrapped
• her 'red line' is immigration, which if you ask most Leavers, wasn't their 'red line'
• she is hell bent on screwing the economy to prove a point
• her Brexit team cannot answer even the most basic questions
• she showed her petticoat to Trump and even he has said the EU will come first
• she is operating under some kind of delusion that EU agencies can remain in what will be a non EU country.

Really, who in their right mind would vote for her?

Life long labour voters who are considering now voting Tory blow my mind.

Seriously, what was ever so bad about the EU that makes it worth all this?

anon thanks for replying.

I just don't see how having a bigger majority helps in the negiotiations.

The EU, so far, have been very clear in their stance. It matters not one iota if 1 person in the U.K. or 65m people want a particular outcome, the decision is not ours to make, we can only negiotiation with what we have, which isn't very much when it boils down to it.

Re the certainty comment- how do you justify the repeated insistence that there would be no GE until 2020 then a complete u-turn when nothing had actually changed- except her ratings had increased so it was only done for her benefit, not that of the country.

Or the refusal to comment on triple lock pensions.

Or the refusal to participate in live debates

What exactly is 'certain' about TM winning the GE (other than she likely will win)?

I don't think "everyone" is going to vote for TM - especially in Scotland grin
OK well I meant everyone "who" is going to vote for her. And yes I know we vote for local MPs I am talking in general. MN really has a lot of pedants.

4) How will this work, mechanistically?
Well TM will be able to say (for example) I will walk away and I can get Parliament and my country to support me, so lets negotiate a good deal.

The country voted for uncertainty and now they're complaining?
Who's complaining, we took the leap of faith, we are dealing with some change and are now saying there is no need for the extra uncertainty JC would bring.

Compared to anoutbreak of bubonic plague followed by direct strike by a comet any of the alternatives on offer, yes.

we shall see. I wouldn't myself say that someone who declares at least five times that there will be no general election...
Surly in Politics you agree with something until you disagree with it, otherwise your just dithering. Right after the Brexit vote we needed a stable leader not another election. TM brought that stability and we have weathered the A50 storm. Now everyone has calmed down there is the opportunity for an election and TM changed her mind. I see that as strength. Anyone remember Gordon Brown? Contrast that to JC's lifetime opposition to the EU only come the referendum he changed his mind.

1) She is the only strong leader in the running.

How is she demonstrating her 'strength'? By sucking-up to questionable presidents? By talking in cliches and even failing to get those right ("we're going to lead the world in preventing tourism...")? By constantly talking about a plan, whilst not having a plan? By making stupid appointments (Fox, Davis, BJ etc)? By forgetting where she is (“I’m pleased to come to er…um…this particular town")? By refusing to debate with other party leaders? By only being able to parrot Lynton Crosby ("Radio Derby: “Do you know what a mugwump is?” Theresa May: “What I recognise is that what we need in this country is strong and stable leadership.”)

If that's 'strong', god help us all.

I just don't see how having a bigger majority helps in the negotiations
Maybe you dont but I know plenty of people who do, I was just saying that is one of the reasons some people will vote for her. I am told negotiations aren't an exact science and having the support of as much of your team behind you does magnify the strength of your arguments.

Hence the EU are bigging up how fast all 27 countries agreed their negotiating principles. It mattered not whether or not they agreed them in 1 or 100 minutes but they are saying look how strong we are we agreed it all so fast. I suppose its human nature.

It matters not one iota if 1 person in the U.K. or 65m people want a particular outcome, the decision is not ours to make And it is not the EUs to make either, it will be jointly agreed or we agree to disagree. And TM does need to convince the EU that she is not bluffing, which she needs Parliaments and the country's backing to say it and mean it.

how do you justify the repeated insistence that there would be no GE until 2020 then a complete u-turn I addressed that in above post.

Or the refusal to comment on triple lock pensions
I imagine its because they haven't released their manifesto yet and are probably still debating what the right thing to do is.

Or the refusal to participate in live debates
Because she has nothing to gain by doing them so why should she?

What exactly is 'certain' about TM winning the GE (other than she likely will win)?
Well not 100% certain but bookies are on about 96% certain.

Or the refusal to participate in live debates
Because she has nothing to gain by doing them so why should she?

See, a lot of people will be thinking she hasn't got the courage of her convictions/can't think on her feet etc., so while you may think she has 'nothing to gain', others might think this makes her look weak and timid. I know I do.

Bear,

I am not going to answer your laundry list of leading questions. Also I have not even decided who I am going to vote for.

anon, it's well seen you're one of TM's disciples.

There's not a single comment with any substance above.

We are trying to negiotiation with things that do not belong to us like EMA/ EBA and are operating under the illusion the EU need us more than we need them which is categorically untrue.

Why are you happy to be brainwashed by this bollocks?

Why are you not prepared to look further than the end of your nose and question why TM isn't prepared to go head to head in live tv?

larry I realise I can't tell you where to post but, if you are not prepared to join in discussions on my threads and repeatedly turn up just to make personal attacks on me and accuse me of changing the subject/ not being accountable for my views, whilst blatantly being unable to answer any retorts I make, then I'd ask you to potter off.

Bear,

Happy to 'potter off' and leave you with your cronies. It is, after all, your thread and you can cry if you want to.

I'm not crying larry just asking for answers you can't provide.

I can do without the personal attacks though.

You clearly have an issue with me, which is fine if you disagree with me, but unless you engage in conversation and back up the insults you hurl at me, you look a bit of a fool.

Gosh, why is larry so grumpy this afternoon?

Bear,

If you feel u have personally attacked you (which I have not), please report my posts and have them deleted.

No need to larry, they make you look stupid, not me

It makes a massive difference in negotiations for everyone to know you have a large majority of your share holders agreeing with your stance.

Our stance, essentially, being that Brexit is going to be all things to all men entirely cost-free, completely beneficial, and overall "better" than being a member of the EU by a range of often mutually incompatible measures ? And that, because ^ of British people desire the abovementioned outcome, the EU simply must^ capitulate, regardless of rules, laws, and their own members' needs?

"It is the Will of the People that the Second Law of Thermodynamics be repealed forthwith, and if it isn't, then we are being Punished and Bullied!"

God, if only that was how the universe worked. There would be calorie-free cream, for a start. And wrinkles would be unknown. And multiple orgasms would be a hell of a lot easier to achieve.

God, if only that was how the universe worked. There would be calorie-free cream, for a start. And wrinkles would be unknown. And multiple orgasms would be a hell of a lot easier to achieve.

PMSL! That just about sums it up!

It's funny how different aspects of your life cross over sometimes.

One of my pet hates is MLM's and the cross overs between the fuckwits that believe in them and those who devoutly think Brexit is the answer to all our prayers is astounding really.

In both cases, those at the top of the tree will do very nicely and everyone else will be screwed over.

TM brought that stability and we have weathered the A50 storm.

Hardly, just because you have swallowed TM's propaganda doesn't mean Scotland, N Ireland and the 48% who didn't vote Leave have done.

Now everyone has calmed down there is the opportunity for an election and TM changed her mind.

There is still anger, and still families and friends who have fallen out over this, and it will take considerably more than 'calming down' for their differences to be resolved. When Theresa May does a complete about turn on something which you hold dear, on a whim, because it's expedient, I wonder if you will still be happy about this.

Well Bear I very much doubt Anon will return either since you said that she had written 'not a single comment of any substance' and that she was 'brainwashed by this bollocks'.
Pray tell me how anyone with opposing views to you 'engage in conversation'?
I have to say I didn't notice any personal attacks on you from Larry but apparently Larry has made herself look like a fool and stupid. So that's alright then carry on as you were in your own little echo chamber.

corcory look back to about page 5 of this thread and you'll see what I'm referring to.

I'm not bothered if people make things personal if they have the courage of their convictions, however, you and anon and larry pipe up spouting second hand May soundbites and think that will silence those of us who aren't stupid enough to doff our caps at May's government.

If it's going to be so fantastic, why can't you put me in my place by telling me why the benefits of Brexit are worth the consequences?

Do you know what scares the shit out of me the most right now- Corbyn has stepped up to the plate far for than TM has even vaguely attempted to since she called the GE.

I dearly hope karma bites her on the arse.

But apparently Corbyn was wrong for not going more than two miles. I don't know how big his constituency is, but that sounds as though he's out talking to his own electorate. Not just having stage managed events.
I too dearly hope that karma gets May.

Having recovered from my earlier shock, I see we are mainly back on well worn territory but I have to congratulate you on this, Bear

One of my pet hates is MLM's and the cross overs between the fuckwits that believe in them and those who devoutly think Brexit is the answer to all our prayers is astounding really

as an impressively novel, yet disappointingly tenuous insult (but I'm sure you will provide thoroughly impartial evidence) to add to the stereotyping, generalising, them-and-us attempts to characterise 17.4 million leave voters. Excellent.

What is MLM?

I want TM to have a minority government, with a significant swing to the liberal democrats, or at least the tiniest majority possible, with the maximum number of remain MPs in it. I think this would be the safest outcome for the country, in terms of securing future economic stability.

I was out shopping for school shoes for a sixth former yesterday in Clarks. Shoes I would expect to pay £45 for were priced at £60. If you ask me what 'stability' looks like, as a normal person, it's not this.

This is entirely down to brexit and will be mirrored right across the economy when it comes to buying essential things.

The price and imported fruit and veg has shot up as well.

On Marr right now.
She refuses to answer why nurses are having to use food banks.