Westministenders: Oh No Not Another One. Thread that is.

[RedToothBrush]

In this edition of Westministers we play a game of ‘Where are they now?’

In June 2016 our screens were subjected to the sight of a number of particularly vocal MPs who participated in debates and stood on soap boxes to talk about the referendum.

The most noticeable of these for Leave were perhaps Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom, Gisela Stuart, Nigel Farage, Priti Patel and Kate Hoey. For Remain it was David Cameron, George Osborne, Jeremy Corbyn, Ruth Davidson, Sadiq Khan, Nicola Sturgeon, Nick Clegg and Tim Farron.

It is starting to seem that anyone involved in campaigning either for or against Brexit in June 2016 has faced an epic battle for survival. Just how long can they last before being defeated or conceding defeat.

David Cameron’s scalp was the first to go, as he swanned off leaving everyone to clear up his mess.

Boris Johnson, who was keen to stamp his mark and pitch for the leadership by stitching up Cameron, got stitched up by Michael Gove who also lost his own bid for leadership as a result.

Johnson, of course, still lives to fight another day by getting a nice job as Theresa’s whipping boy. He’s occasionally let out by himself, but its Michael Fallon who does the ‘Grown Up Business’. He was said to be one of the last to support an early election. I can’t think why that might be.

Poor old Gove is now confined to a straight-jacket, the back benches where he’s been told to think about what he’s done like a naughty school child and a column in the Times

Andrea Leadsom was sent to a field of cows never to be seen again except to pop up for the odd cameo line shouting about ‘Jam’.

Queen Theresa also dealt with the other Conservative Leader Leave Candidate Mr Liam Fox, by shipping him off to every dodgy corner of the global to get pampered by state hostility.

Stephen Crabb simply crawled back under his rock.

The announcement of the General Election seems to be like the major soap incident episode where half the cast get killed off by a totally unrealistic disaster because their acting contracts weren’t being renewed.

The quitters and abdicators who now have legged it at the sight of a General Election are Gisela ‘Champion of the Brexit Bus’ Stuart and Nigel ‘Too chicken to be defeated for an eighth time and risk losing my nice EU pension’ Farage. George Osborne took the advice of his school teachers and had another career to fall back on when he didn’t become successful in his first choice.

Its rather starting to look like the curse of being a leading Brexiteer is to be made to disappear off the face of the earth or fuck off when the going gets tough. Have you seen Priti Patel lately? Does she even still exist? And Chris Grayling? He was convinced he was going to get chancellor when he supported May in her bid for the leadership.
Instead he got packed off transport and disappeared off the face of the earth much to the annoyance of everyone caught up in the rail strikes.

The only one who is remotely visible seems to be David Davis and is like May’s pet poodle who just tries to please his owner.

It’s almost like the only one still standing or hasn’t been banished is Kate Hoey. And the Lib Dems are trying to work on that one and make her sink beneath the waves, on board her Alan Partridge Titanic once and for all.

Conversely the visible Remainers seem to be – on the face of it - fairing rather better at the moment.

Sadiq Khan is hugely popular and actually does his job rather than fannying about on zip wires. Ruth Davidson is also well respected and apparently has saved Priti Patel’s job from abolition. If the rumours are to be believed bored with scrapping with Nicola, she might be lining herself up for ‘Big Things’ in Westminister. Cameron’s one time love interest, Nick Clegg hasn’t shaken the tarnish of the coalition but he is enjoying a new reputation as the Brexit Soothsayer and some people actually know who Tim Farron is now, which is progress. Nicola Sturgeon is of course riding high and seems to be a permanent thorn in Theresa’s side.

Jeremy ‘I’m a Remainer, honest comrades’ Corbyn is the one who seems to be something of a walking disaster area yet is also thriving with it like a zombie who just keeps going regardless of what you throw at him.

And then of course there is Queen Theresa. The Remainer. Who has crushed everyone in her party. Not just the saboteurs. Even her supposed ally Hammond and BBF Rudd have been thrown under the bus at her wimb when its suited May personally.

The General Election now sets a new scene and opportunity for new characters to emerge. Now the rats have left the ship or been put in their place.

Will May set course to the left or to the right or simply plow on like a bull in a china shop?

Anyway I’m now looking forward to the shocking soap opera moment where your favourite hero or villain gets killed off in a twist you didn’t see coming. Role on June 8th. If only to get pass the upcoming horror of the next six weeks.

It's because France is such a prominent and influential member of the EU that it will influence the negotiations - perhaps even more than the UK's eventual negotiating stance because the EU quite simply holds all the cards. And it will set the tone for the German elections which are the same only more so.

Misti: Melenchon said in his speech that it was not up to him to tell his followers how to vote hence 'not coming out'. His words were : 'do your duty' ; he wore his insigna reminding voters of all the communists sent to nazi concentration camps.

Le Pen is backed by Russian money...; this will come out even more so in the next couple of weeks. Le Pen is also part of the Establishment. I totally disagree with the interpretation of the British Media re Le Pennot being part of the establishment. In fact she is part of the establishment. Last week I spoke with a few farmers in Central France: they were going to vote for Macron because a) Le Pen too establishment b) Fillon 'un bandit', France's history is very complex hence Anglo Saxon media lack of understanding and proper knowledge.

which it no doubt will, if she is in charge

Not unless public opinion changes radically. Le Pen voters are not necessarily anti-EU and many worry about her plans to leave the euro (which would also be put to a referendum). It is a mistake to think that Le Pen voters hate EU immigration. By and large, they are either old school racists who hate brown people and muslims, or contrarians. Serious eurosceptics voted for Dupont-Aignan (whose platform is basically pre-Farage UKIP) and Asselineau (whose platform is basically Farage UKIP). Between them they got less than 6% of the vote.

That's not to say that Le Pen wouldn't be catastrophically bad for the EU - but it would not lead, directly, to Frexit.

Misti: Melenchon said in his speech that it was not up to him to tell his followers how to vote hence 'not coming out'. His words were : 'do your duty' ; he wore his insigna reminding voters of all the communists sent to nazi concentration camps.

He might think he is being subtle, but literally everybody apart from his most ardent fans (our equivalent of the Bernie Bros) thinks he is being a bit of a sore loser and an apologist for fascism.

Might make people who jumped ship from the PS think twice about supporting him for the legislative elections.

MO4D Le Pen would be a disaster for the EU, but she would have to work hard to get direct support from the French people for frexit. The danger would be that a Le Pen victory would damage the economy (EU and France) and make it hard for the EU to get anything done.

French economy is growing quite well, this will tend to reduce Euroscepticism. A Le Pen induced economic shock is the danger, though not at this point a very large one.

I agree.
Le Pen is not anti EU immigration or anti foreigner .She has problems with North african immigration with Muslim background

Le Pen is not anti EU immigration or anti foreigner .She has problems with North african immigration with Muslim background

And Jews.

Sorry pressed post to early. Le pen and her supporters tend to be massively anti-Semitic. They will go all out on the "Rothschild" slur against Macron.

Only the other week a prominent FN politician in the FN stronghold jn the SE had to stand down for holocaust denial. They are totally unreformed, whatever the BBC would like you to think.

I dint believe that France would vote to come out of the EU (or the Euro fornthat matter).
You would need a lot of brainwashing (bots/fake news) to see that happening IMO.

Also agree re being anti foreigners. You don't have an anti foreigner feeling in France but you do have massive issues re North African and Muslims. I don't even think this is a sentiment only shared by MLP voters.
But everyone else will be welcomed as long as they are willing to fit in the french society

"'do your duty' ; he wore his insigna reminding voters of all the communists sent to nazi concentration camps."

That's smart.

Xpost mother
No in France the anti foreigner feeling is completely different than the anti North African feeling.
This is a left over from the war in Algeria as well as the difficulty of integration that North African had in the 1960 (lots of them came as France needed them. There wasn't enough people do some jobs, in particular the very low skilled ones).
Imo this is as much as reject from 'North africans' as it is a reject of a specific social issue and an issue with integration of a certain group.

If you look at any other group of foreigners, you never find that sort of issues (eu or non eu for that matter) so I don't think you're u can talk about a general 'anti foreigner' feeling. Very very different than whautbyou find over here.

Also agree re being anti foreigners. You don't have an anti foreigner feeling in France but you do have massive issues re North African and Muslims. I don't even think this is a sentiment only shared by MLP voters.

Yes absolutely agree. I think anti North African/ Muslim sentiment crosses the political spectrum especially among older people. This is much less true amongst younger left-leaning people of course.

I think there is very anti newcomer feeling in rural France, I think that is widely known.
Well I'm living in rural England and I can tell you that this anti newcomer feeling exists very strongly there too.... 17 years on and I'm still not integrated at all. a nice mix of small town mentality, class issue and 'anti foreigner' feelings.

It's very different to an anti foreigner feeling though.
The anti newcomer is about EVERYONE' french or not (having lived in Limoges myself, you clearly have two sub groups there. The new comers and the others for example...)
This is not about an anti North African feeling (or even an anti foreigner feeling) which is what MLP is thriving on.

I can tell you that this anti newcomer feeling exists very strongly there too.
poly
That's the trump card (pun intended) racists and anti semites, it takes little provocation to enflame xenophobia anywhere. Unless the state and media actively controls racism it, like any immorality can spread.
We have the reverse across the west right now.

I notice too that The Spectator, RT, DT and BBC running the line that socialist agitators (anti MLP) are causing civil strife in France.

Tacit and not so tacit pro MLP lines across the British and Russian press.

Agree mother Like the trumpsters, and the ukips, the FN are skint and now in hoc big time to russians.
www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-asked-to-repay-e9-million-bank-loan-reports-czech-russian/

We should have a 'follow the money' thread on these characters.

Victoria Derbyshire @vicderbyshire
"Yes I'm a feminist", @PhilipDaviesMP tells us #VictoriaLIVE

And I'm a fan of Donald Trump.

Sorry I probably haven't explained myself well.
The anti newcomer feeling in France doesn't translate in an anti foreigner feeling. There is no direct relationship between the two that I've ever experienced.
This anti newcomer is also restricted, again in my experience, to central France. Not every rural area in France.

Which is why I dont believe about this direct relationship.

I do agree with misti that a part of the electorate is voting for MLP as a protest vote, knowing well that even if she comes to the second round, they will be able to vote for the other candidate.

What I have seen with this election is the reject of the 'old timers'. People have enough of the 'dinosaurs' such as Fillion. People who have been in politics for years and years.
They want new ideas, new people, fresh blood.
This is what played in favour of Macron as well as MLP. Both protest votes in a different way iyswim.