Westministenders: Oh No Not Another One. Thread that is.

[RedToothBrush]

In this edition of Westministers we play a game of ‘Where are they now?’

In June 2016 our screens were subjected to the sight of a number of particularly vocal MPs who participated in debates and stood on soap boxes to talk about the referendum.

The most noticeable of these for Leave were perhaps Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom, Gisela Stuart, Nigel Farage, Priti Patel and Kate Hoey. For Remain it was David Cameron, George Osborne, Jeremy Corbyn, Ruth Davidson, Sadiq Khan, Nicola Sturgeon, Nick Clegg and Tim Farron.

It is starting to seem that anyone involved in campaigning either for or against Brexit in June 2016 has faced an epic battle for survival. Just how long can they last before being defeated or conceding defeat.

David Cameron’s scalp was the first to go, as he swanned off leaving everyone to clear up his mess.

Boris Johnson, who was keen to stamp his mark and pitch for the leadership by stitching up Cameron, got stitched up by Michael Gove who also lost his own bid for leadership as a result.

Johnson, of course, still lives to fight another day by getting a nice job as Theresa’s whipping boy. He’s occasionally let out by himself, but its Michael Fallon who does the ‘Grown Up Business’. He was said to be one of the last to support an early election. I can’t think why that might be.

Poor old Gove is now confined to a straight-jacket, the back benches where he’s been told to think about what he’s done like a naughty school child and a column in the Times

Andrea Leadsom was sent to a field of cows never to be seen again except to pop up for the odd cameo line shouting about ‘Jam’.

Queen Theresa also dealt with the other Conservative Leader Leave Candidate Mr Liam Fox, by shipping him off to every dodgy corner of the global to get pampered by state hostility.

Stephen Crabb simply crawled back under his rock.

The announcement of the General Election seems to be like the major soap incident episode where half the cast get killed off by a totally unrealistic disaster because their acting contracts weren’t being renewed.

The quitters and abdicators who now have legged it at the sight of a General Election are Gisela ‘Champion of the Brexit Bus’ Stuart and Nigel ‘Too chicken to be defeated for an eighth time and risk losing my nice EU pension’ Farage. George Osborne took the advice of his school teachers and had another career to fall back on when he didn’t become successful in his first choice.

Its rather starting to look like the curse of being a leading Brexiteer is to be made to disappear off the face of the earth or fuck off when the going gets tough. Have you seen Priti Patel lately? Does she even still exist? And Chris Grayling? He was convinced he was going to get chancellor when he supported May in her bid for the leadership.
Instead he got packed off transport and disappeared off the face of the earth much to the annoyance of everyone caught up in the rail strikes.

The only one who is remotely visible seems to be David Davis and is like May’s pet poodle who just tries to please his owner.

It’s almost like the only one still standing or hasn’t been banished is Kate Hoey. And the Lib Dems are trying to work on that one and make her sink beneath the waves, on board her Alan Partridge Titanic once and for all.

Conversely the visible Remainers seem to be – on the face of it - fairing rather better at the moment.

Sadiq Khan is hugely popular and actually does his job rather than fannying about on zip wires. Ruth Davidson is also well respected and apparently has saved Priti Patel’s job from abolition. If the rumours are to be believed bored with scrapping with Nicola, she might be lining herself up for ‘Big Things’ in Westminister. Cameron’s one time love interest, Nick Clegg hasn’t shaken the tarnish of the coalition but he is enjoying a new reputation as the Brexit Soothsayer and some people actually know who Tim Farron is now, which is progress. Nicola Sturgeon is of course riding high and seems to be a permanent thorn in Theresa’s side.

Jeremy ‘I’m a Remainer, honest comrades’ Corbyn is the one who seems to be something of a walking disaster area yet is also thriving with it like a zombie who just keeps going regardless of what you throw at him.

And then of course there is Queen Theresa. The Remainer. Who has crushed everyone in her party. Not just the saboteurs. Even her supposed ally Hammond and BBF Rudd have been thrown under the bus at her wimb when its suited May personally.

The General Election now sets a new scene and opportunity for new characters to emerge. Now the rats have left the ship or been put in their place.

Will May set course to the left or to the right or simply plow on like a bull in a china shop?

Anyway I’m now looking forward to the shocking soap opera moment where your favourite hero or villain gets killed off in a twist you didn’t see coming. Role on June 8th. If only to get pass the upcoming horror of the next six weeks.

"Such guarantees must be effective enforceable, non discriminatory and comprehensive including the right to acquire permanent residence after a continuous period of 5 years legal residence."
(from Section 3 Agreements on Arrangements for an Orderly Withdrawal")

Yes swedish and lala ^

Good news for NI then.

Regardless of whether one voted Leave or Remain, it's important that NI has a definite future as part of a united Ireland if its citizens vote to do so at any point in the future.

Any future ref to leave the union has a solid and certain alternative.

^Theresa May warned of fresh court challenge over Brexit as ‘law requires second referendum' on any agreement.
Former doctor Andrew Watt sends letter before action to Prime Minister claiming European Act 2011 requires a second referendum on any withdrawal agreement^

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-court-challenge-second-referendum-dr-andrew-watt-a7709136.html

Mother, it is not a kick in the teeth from the EU. It doesn't even have anything to do with whether the vote was predominantly for Leave or Remain. People from NI are entitled to retain their EU citizenship, even after Brexit, if identifying as Irish. And the GFA allows for the reunification of Ireland if this is the democratic will of the majority in a referendum. This relationship is not replicated anywhere else in the UK.

It is Westminister who are telling Scotland their vote does not count independently of the UK as a whole. Even Spain is feeling magnanimous by saying they wouldn't block Scotland. And Ireland would certainly be allies with a Scotland bid. When NS addressed Seanad Éireann, there was such a palpable love in. Declarations of how wonderful the civic nationalism of the small independent nation state is in the face of global forces. How transformative independence, with the benefit of EU membership, had been for Ireland. And how Ireland looked on the EU, not as a superstate, but as a partnership of independent countries.

Thanks for making that clear, woman. I'm a bit disappointed that PR will only apply to people who moved here a full five years before we leave as it makes those who moved subsequently but before the referendum or the triggering of A50, very easy pickings.

I shall watch Dr Watt's progress with interest .

I agree Cailleach1 I for one, feel relieved and encouraged that the EU27 are upholding the GFA, rights of EU nationals etc. There are democrats who uphold human rights still. Hope there are more formal link ups with The 48%, SNP, SF etc and Barnier.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-39755603
Hartlepool UKIP rally marred by women's street fight

and
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/29/theresa-may-campaign-event-in-scottish-forest-prompts-new-claims-she-is-hiding

"Theresa May has fuelled accusations she has been “hiding from the public” during the general election campaign after she held her latest rally in a tiny community hall in the depths of a forest with such poor phone reception that live coverage of the event was impossible.

Channelling her inner Gruffalo.

Dr Watt's bid is interesting, but I reckon if we hold a referendum after 2 years of hassle and financial outlay, and decide we don't want to leave after all, the 27 will throw their hands up in exasperation and want us out anyway.

Here's the link to the EU negotiating guidelines, published today:

www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/04/29-euco-brexit-guidelines/

Re Theresa May's " Avoid Meet the people" campaign/trip to the back of beyond Scotland, this is quite amusing, although the last bit is disturbing (the police telling bystanders to "save it for the ballot box" rather than TM acknowledging the "Meet the people" - shades of the Bolton taxi driver )

mewsingoutloud.wordpress.com/2017/04/29/where/

Couple that with the fact the YouGov is now literally polling on whether "The best way to run the country would be to have a strong leader who does not have to bother with parliament and elections" then the UK is becoming a very scary place to be if you are not a "believer"

Whenever I need to weigh up a political thing, I usually try to take politics out of it and view it in terms of football - seriously! For example whether a blanket ban on muslims entering the country would be good after a terrorist attack - would I want to be banned from entering a country where football fans had just been involved in nasty violence on the sole basis that I like football?

This tweet seemed tailored to me - both in terms of statistical interpretation and politics/football

Faisal Islam‏*@faisalislam*

All Premier League clubs relegated likely to be from Leave areas.... Top 6 likely to be all Remain areas...

Correlation not causality.

if you are not a "believer"

It's funny, I got a reply from my MP this week and I was noticing the word "believe" being used quite a few times.

What is definitely creepy is that the Tories are campaigning with just Theresa May's name, not 'Conservatives'

David Allen Green‏*@davidallengreen*

1. Some quick thoughts on May's supposed 'strong and stable' approach to Brexit.
2. Back in July, whilst the EU cracked on with preparing, May lost crucial time starting two (competing) Whitehall departments from scratch.
3. Back in Autumn, when High Court ruled that A50 outside prerogative, May could have got on with job with a Bill - but appealed instead.
4. May was lucky Supreme Court only said a Bill was needed, not devolved power input. Huge, needless gamble.
5. Had May just got on with a A50 Bill, it would have been passed by Christmas.
6. When she claimed not to want show her cards, she instead made the Birmingham conference speech.
7. In that speech, she declared (a) March date for A50, (b) no ECJ jurisdiction, and (c) no freedom of movement. Cards fully shown.
8. Come April, instead of "getting on with the job", she wastes a month of the A50 two years with a needless general election.
9. Three time she could have "got on with the job" but instead: two needless new departments, needless appeal, needless general election.

10. Again and again, under the cloak of "getting on with job" rhetoric. May is diverted and wastes precious time. But the EU27 has not. 11. And this is in addition to losing key people like Rogers, and appointing Boris and Fox. 12. This is not strong and stable leadership but the reverse, but people will nod-along because it is called "strong and stable leadership". 13. If UK not wasted time with two new departments, and needless appeal and election, stronger position than now. Only May to blame. /Ends.

Green's not wrong.
Lots of education stories brewing: NAHT head teachers' conference may propose 4.5 day school week; BBC reporting that "Sats tests: Exam results 'manipulated for political agenda"; the funding cut web site is busy, post your school and get the cuts figures. May's in a wood with no wifi.

Anyway, I'm off to bed and I'm not sure when I'll get on tomorrow.

So here's a new thread to keep you going.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2916339-Westministenders-Up-Shit-Creek-without-Wifi?watched=1

A question: have things in N Ireland and Scotland now gathered their own momentum? Leading to Independence/ReUnification. I don't know, but I suspect that's the case.

A question: have things in N Ireland and Scotland now gathered their own momentum?
Looks a bit like, and with EU muscle too. Bad fight to pick really Mrs May.
As we're at the tail end of this thread too, I'll post this interesting review of a book by Roy Hattersley about British Catholicism. Comparisons with May's attacks on Moslems and the same in Elizabethan times against Catholic 'traitors'.
I didn't know that the EU flag's stars refer to the Virgin Mary's crown, seems unlikely, but it's in this piece.
www.newstatesman.com/culture/books/2017/04/hidden-history-catholics-britain

Interesting article woman - I can relate to a lot of that. I heard something similar said at the recent anniversary of the Treaty of Rome (?). That the EU was predominantly Catholic and that there certainly was (and still is?) an anti-Catholic view in the UK. Remember if you were raised a Catholic, you were always aware that you weren't good enough for the Royal family until 2011 (just checked).

More surprisingly (happily), I thought Roy Hattersley was dead.

woman - there was serious deprivation in Ireland during WW2 (known in Ireland as 'the Emergency'). From Wikipedia -
'Being still largely dependent on Britain for coal, manufactured goods and fuel oils, supplies of these were reduced after the fall of France in mid-1940, causing price inflation and a busy black market. It was said that "the poor are like hunted rats looking for bread", as wheat supplies fell, and that the introduction of full rationing was "seriously belated". Typhus reappeared and the government started planning for famine relief in late 1941. John Betjeman, the British press attaché in Dublin, reported "No coal. No petrol. No gas. No electric. No paraffin. Guinness good." In March 1942 the government banned the export of beers, and decided that more wheat should be grown, and less barley. The prospect of a shortage of beer led on to barter deals whereby Britain supplied wheat suitable for making bread flour, and coal, and in return Ireland allowed the export of beers.'

Trains, if they ran at all, burned turf instead of coal. Horses and carts replaced private cars and people rode bikes until they fell apart. The Army patrolled on bikes.

There was compulsory tillage (backbreaking and frustrating in a land of horse-drawn ploughs and wet, cold summers) to ensure a supply of wheat and stave off famine, TB made huge inroads, and actual hunger was evident in the cities. Rationing was introduced very early on but even still, shortages caused by U-boat campaigns against shipping caused a lot of hardship. Rationing was no guarantee of availability. What was rationed tended to vary depending on the fate of shipping and on British needs. Bread was rationed in 1942, along with sugar and tea, soap and toothpaste.

My grandparents had a farm where they supported their own seven children, my grandfather's elderly uncle and aunt, and four of their nieces and nephews from Liverpool - grandfather's brother didn't want to have his RC children evacuated to a protestant home in rural England so they risked the boat to Dublin. They got by thanks to a dairy herd, pigs, hens, growing vegetables and apples and their own oats on top of their wheat acreage quota, but nobody had new clothes or shoes or winter coats, and granny did a huge amount of darning and patching. Worst of all, letters to and from Australia couldn't be shipped, and it was a relief to everyone when the family was finally able to get back in touch with two of my grandfather's siblings who had emigrated there.

My mum was sent off to boarding school in 1945 and developed anemia because of the poor and inadequate food. She remembers having one little pat of butter per week, with a spoonful of jam, and the girls had to work in the school dairy, churning butter, making buttermilk, and whatever other by-products butter-making produces. Meat and eggs were never rationed in Ireland but supplying them to Dublin was difficult without vehicles or trains or refrigeration or a canning industry, though locally produced meat and eggs were smuggled across into NI. Mum and her schoolmates saw very little meat or eggs.

Wages were frozen, and union activity was severely curtailed. At the end of the war, civil servants and office workers were sent from Dublin to help with the vital harvest in 1945 and 1946. It was a bit like Kampuchea.

If anyone managed to lay their hands on chocolate in Ireland before 1945 it could have come from NI, where American troops were stationed.

Thanks for that math, really interesting, even though ROI was neutral, the U boats must have prevented food getting in? Real history is so much more fascinating than the state versions. Must check with the source when I see her!