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Brexit

Westminstenders: The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 06/04/2017 21:42

The wheels on bus start to fall off, start to fall off…

Since Article 50 has been triggered – 8 days ago:

  1. A week after a terror attack in London, the government threatened to stop co-operation over security issues with the EU. This was quickly retracted as ‘not being a threat’. Except it was.

  2. The ‘Great’ Repeal Act White Paper was published. Its vague, lacks detail, does not have a draft bill and there is no plan for a public consultation over it. It proposes sweeping powers for the government without parliamentary scrutiny using Henry VIII powers.

  3. HMRC have said the new computer system planned for launch in 2019, won’t be able to cope with the additional work which leaving the Customs Union would produce. It would be five times the work load which sounds like a lot more red tape.

  4. Spain have said they would not oppose an Independent Scotland being in the EU.

  5. May’s article 50 letter did not mention Gibraltar and after the publication of the EU draft document on how the Brexit process would be handled, this looks like a massive error and oversight. One of the clauses was that any future arrangements with regard to Gibraltar had to be settled with Spain bi-laterally rather than by the EU and the UK’s agreement with the EU would not apply to Gibraltar, unless Spain agreed. This has been taken as an affront to Gibraltar’s sovereignty, although the document says nothing about sovereignty. Michael Howard, however, decided this was sufficient grounds to threaten our ally Spain with war.

    May has not condemned his comments, and laughed it off. Though she was happy to get worked up about the word ‘Easter’ a couple of days later.

    Of course, this situation was entirely predictable and was predicted yet this situation seems to have taken the government by surprise. Our reaction, in the context of everything else, has made the UK look like a basket case.

  6. The government’s plan to run talks on the UK’s settlement on leaving the EU in parallel with talks on the UK’s future relationship with the EU has been rejected by the EU. Instead we must do things in stages, with advancement to the next stage only possible after completing the last: Stage 1 – Exit, Stage 2 – Preliminary agreement on future relation, Stage 3 – Exit/Transition Deal, Stage 4 – As third country status enter a new deal.

    The effect of this also means that deals we currently have with counties like South Korea through the EU need to be revisited. There is no guarantee these countries will want to continue trading with us on the same terms, if they do not want to.

  7. The EU has set out its own red lines. Our deal 'must encompass safeguards against...fiscal, social & environmental dumping'. Our transition deal must not last longer than three years and individual sectors, like banking, should not get special treatment.

    Donald Tusk has said we don’t need a punishment deal as we are doing a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot, whilst Guy Verhofstadt said Brexit is Brexit is a 'catfight in Conservative party that got out of hand” and hoped future generations would reverse it.

  8. May has admitted that we might well have no deal in place by the time we leave the EU. Until now we have been told we would have a deal in two years. She has also admitted an extension of free movement of people beyond Brexit.

  9. The Brexit Select Committee published their report which warned about the dangers of exit without any deal, as well as talking about problems relating to the ‘Great’ Repeal Act, Gibraltar and NI. This is sensible and you’d think uncontroversial, but the Brexiteers threw the toys out of their pram saying it was too pessimistic. The government’s job is, of course, to plan for problems no matter how unlikely – such as disasters – and to hope that never happens. It seems that these Brexiteers don’t want to act responsibility or do their job.

  10. Questions at the WTO have been asked about how Brexit will affect them. Interest in the subject came initially from Indonesia about Tariff Rate Quotas, but other parties who were watching closely were Argentina, China, Russia and the United States.

  11. Phillip Hammond has openly said that there are a number of Tory MPs who want us to not make any agreement with the EU and to crash out in a chaotic exit.

  12. Polling has suggested that people want Brexit to be quick and cheap. Not only that, but the word ‘Brexit’ has started to poll badly. Instead the Brexit department are advising officials to use the phrase “new partnership with Europe”. Lynton Crosby, the mastermind behind 2015’s Conservative victory has also warned that the Tories would probably lose 30 seats they gained from the LDs at an early election.

    Of course, even a 2020 election might prove challenging with a transition deal still likely to be unresolved as Brexit drags on. Government strategy is, apparently, to hope that Remainer's anger will have dissolved by 2020.

    Eight days in, and the Brexit Bus looks like it strayed into 1980's Toxeth and got torched, its wheels nicked, and graffitied with obscenities over its £350million pledge.
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HashiAsLarry · 07/04/2017 22:34

The entire passport thing makes me grind my teeth. Its not mandatory to hold a passport, in the UK at least if you're British.

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Peregrina · 08/04/2017 00:05

This may be a silly question, but I haven't changed my Drs Surgery in more than 35 years - do they still issue NHS cards? The obvious thing would be to ask for your card or failing that your NHS number. Any checking as to entitlement could be done at the registration stage, since in my experience people tend to register with a doctor when they move house. This would mean that the formalities were completed before treatment was required, and not risk refusing treatment to those who need it.

As people have said, all this will do is risk the health of vulnerable groups and make little or no difference to health tourism, which is not the major problem the NHS faces.

For the nerdy ones among us, the original NHS numbers were taken from the war time identity card numbers, and those of us who were born post war also had ID cards and NHS cards bearing the same number. The numbering system has now changed, but I don't remember anyone bothering to inform us about that.

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7Days · 08/04/2017 00:32

Placemark

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PattyPenguin · 08/04/2017 07:54

NHS numbers are still issued, though they are now numerical only rather than the old ones which contained letters and numbers. You don't need to give your NHS number to get treatment, it says here www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/records/nhs-number/Pages/what-is-the-nhs-number.aspx

The Government's guide to treatment for migrants is here
www.gov/guidance/nhs-entitlements-migrant-health-guide#hospital-treatment The following, I think, is the paragraph relevant to the present discussion. "Hospital treatment is free to people classed as ordinarily resident in the UK. This is not dependent on nationality, payment of UK taxes, National Insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS Number, or owning property in the UK. To be considered ordinarily resident, you must be living in the UK on a lawful and properly settled basis for the time being – you may be asked to prove this."

You will note that "nationality" is specifically noted as not proving entitlement, so asking for a passport is in fact entirely pointless, according to the country's own rules.

The UK has no system for registering foreign residents, as many other European countries do. There is no clear definition of habitual residence, either.

I suspect that anyone with an unusual name, an accent or even a "foreign" appearance may need a file of utility bills, bank / card statements, pay slips, tenancy agreement / council tax document, TV licence, just in case. And a rehearsed argument, with printed references, why being asked for a passport (which if a UK citizen he/she may not possess) is wrong.

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Peregrina · 08/04/2017 08:03

You can see what will happen - someone black or Asian or someone with an accent will be asked for a passport, whilst a pensioner who has lived in Spain for 20 odd years and comes back for treatment won't be asked.

I don't suppose it will be doctors who are the ones responsible - it will be the receptionists, who act as the gatekeepers. There have already been anecdotal reports of this sort of thing happening (might have been on MN, I can't be sure, or it may have been on a facebook group I belong to). I can only hope that various action groups are onto this, and get it abolished. This remember is in a country which the Prime Minister wants to 'work for everyone'. Increasingly, there seem to be more and more categories of people who do not count as 'everyone'.

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Gumpendorf · 08/04/2017 08:10

I had surgery in a British hospital 5 years ago and the pre op letter asked me to bring my passport or utility bill. No one asked to see it.

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Mistigri · 08/04/2017 08:41

You can see what will happen - someone black or Asian or someone with an accent will be asked for a passport, whilst a pensioner who has lived in Spain for 20 odd years and comes back for treatment won't be asked.

My tenant, a French resident for over a decade, recently sought NHS treatment during a trip to the UK. He's been hospitalised on and off ever since. No questions asked ...

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EmilyAlice · 08/04/2017 08:42

I have said it before, but when OH needed to see a GP when we were in the UK he was asked for his National Insurance number and they tracked him down to our last GP's surgery. As we are pensioners in France with health care paid for by the UK under the S1 form they probably concluded that it wasn't worth claiming the cost back from France who would then claim it from Newcastle.

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Peregrina · 08/04/2017 08:50

I do seriously worry, having just had a sample of a Health visitor asking my DIL what sounded like blatantly racist questions. DIL is mixed race, and hasn't been back to her country of birth since she was about six months old, nor does she live in a community of people from her country of birth. DS was furious but wasn't around and asked whether the HV knew that he was white and had always lived here?

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HesterThrale · 08/04/2017 09:40

How long before it becomes clear that NOBODY gets what they wanted from Brexit?
Brexiteers are increasingly unhappy because immigration won't be controlled. Another old Tory, David Mellor, says TM failed to get it under control as Home Secretary, adding:

'To get a serious grip on most immigration, we didn't actually need to leave the EU. We just needed an effective Home Secretary.'

And: '... why go through all the pain of Brexit, if the principal reason for doing it - stopping free movement - doesn't happen?'

www.lbc.co.uk/opinion/david-mellors-blog/mellor-fears-brexit-will-be-biggest-betrayal/

The sound of pennies dropping will become deafening soon.

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Peregrina · 08/04/2017 09:42

I couldn't work out whether Mellor was for Leave or Remain from that piece. All I could work out was that he didn't like Theresa May, and he's not alone there.

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Motheroffourdragons · 08/04/2017 09:43

Place marking. Thanks red

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HesterThrale · 08/04/2017 09:55

Peregrina I took it that he was in favour of Brexit but only if immigration is controlled. Although he does point out there's more immigration anyway from non-EU places.

How will the country ever be reconciled if it appears half the people hate Brexit because it's too harsh, and the others hate it because it's not harsh enough? But, then, we go through with it anyway...

Mmmm.... maybe the nation could unite over a joint hatred of Brexit, albeit for different reasons. (Saturday morning musings.)

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RedToothBrush · 08/04/2017 10:07

www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/04/daily-chart-2?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/
The EU27 and the Brexit negotiations

According to a new index, the EU27 countries fall into three groups: hard-core, hard and soft

France, not Spain, is likely to be a problem.

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RedToothBrush · 08/04/2017 10:16

I find this convincing:


Seth Abramson @SethAbramson
(THREAD) The evidence that Trump's completely ineffectual military strike on Syria was just an empty political gesture is now overwhelming.
(1) If he was worried about the Syrian people, he had numerous better options: allow refugees to come to U.S.; humanitarian aid; safe zones.
(2) If he was interested in degrading Syria's air force, he wouldn't have given Putin advance notice. Putin then gave Assad advance notice.
(3) The result of giving both Russia and Syria advance notice of the air strike was that they moved their troops and bunkered their planes.
(4) One indication Putin knew the strike would be no threat to him or Syria is Russian air defenses didn't try to take down any tomahawks.
(5) If Trump was interested in degrading Syria's flight capability in Homs, he wouldn't have left an air strip untouched. But he did that.
(6) GOP Congressmen and retired generals were saying this air strike would be ineffective. Which is why Trump consulted Putin, but not them.
(7) In 2013, Trump saw the same pictures of chemical-weapon devastation and opposed air strikes. So his "conversion narrative" is a farce.
(8) The strikes successfully pushed Russiagate coverage off the front page. We were talking about Nunes and Kushner scandals, now we're not.
(9) Incredibly—bizarrely—Trump somehow struck Syria with 59 Tomahawk missiles without articulating even a single coherent strategic aim.
(10) For all the talk of Trump's Syrian about-face, he's no more committed to ousting Assad than a week ago, when he expressed no interest.
(BONUS) Trump and Putin can now look like they're at odds—helpful for Russiagate—when in fact Trump's ineffective strike didn't harm Putin.
(UPDATE) Reuters confirms Syria has continued launching strikes from the base Trump hit. This was the most ineffectual US strike in decades.
(PICS 1) Notice that the airfield is still usable. Only one of five aircraft shelters was destroyed. "Damaged" shelters mean intact planes.
(PICS 2) Those runways are easy targets for laser-guided missiles. But Reuters confirms at least one is intact enough to launch warplanes.
(PICS 3) Here are more intact runways and "damaged" shelters with intact planes beneath them. If the Navy wanted these gone, they would be.
(POSTSCRIPT) I intend no criticism of our military here. I think they followed their orders to the letter. Their orders were simply asinine.

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Peregrina · 08/04/2017 10:19

France was always the problem from De Gaulle onwards, but I have to admit that he was right.

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HesterThrale · 08/04/2017 10:22

Greens to contest more seats than UKIP in local elections. UKIP not even contesting any seats in Harlow, where they won 25% vote share in 2013.

www.google.co.uk/amp/m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58e68cb2e4b0773c0d3f1e26/amp

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RedToothBrush · 08/04/2017 10:35

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58e89c11e4b00de14103c7c6?ncid=tweetlnkukhpmg00000001
EDL Birmingham Demo Countered By Mosque Tea Party
‘Cuppa and a chat.’

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GreenPeppers · 08/04/2017 11:22

Well DeGaulle had quite a few issues with Britain and Churchill during the WW2...
And there was also the 100 years war.....
And Napoleon....

Tbh the issue isn't France because France doesn't like Britain. The issue is the huge gap between the ideal France is holding regarding the EU and how Britain sees the EU.
I've been wondering if this isn't the reason why papers here just go on and in about France wanting Frexit, newspapers just been 'against' Marine LePen etc... They would love nothing more than to see France being closer to the UK, ideals wise.

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GreenPeppers · 08/04/2017 11:24

Re the NHS, I don't understand it.
When I registered with the NHS, I was givenan NHS card. DH has one from when he was in his 20s.
They include the NHS number that can easily track down if you are still registered with a surgery etc... Isn't that easier??

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prettybird · 08/04/2017 11:33

Yes, but how many of those that have emigrated gone to live Wink in Spain or France and are no longer resident here have actually de-registered from their old GP? Hmm

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EmilyAlice · 08/04/2017 12:18

Well prettybird everyone I know has de-registered from their old GP. We are all delighted with the excellent treatment we get under the French system and can't imagine why anyone would chose to go back to the UK to be treated. Doctors appointments within 24 hours, walk-in blood tests, a specialist x-ray centre where they ask when you would like to come, good hospitals.....

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Badders123 · 08/04/2017 12:19

My dads cousin went to live in Spain with her husband
They came back every 2 months for their repeat meds and literally took a suitcase full back with them each time
Then he got ill and they came home

Lots like them around

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EmilyAlice · 08/04/2017 12:26

I think the election of Macron (which looks increasingly likely) will be interesting. He is clearly very pro a strong and united EU. I suspect he will also be very gung-ho about attracting the best talent from the UK as well as getting his own high-flyers back from London.

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EmilyAlice · 08/04/2017 12:31

Well I am sure there are some like that Badders123. Bizarre though, because when I have spent time on the Costas there seem to be English speaking doctors / physiotherapists / dentists all over the place. It is true that in the "Place in the Sun" years a lot of people came and then went back pretty quickly when they couldn't speak the language / find work / spend all day sitting by a pool.
Mostly long gone though.

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