what does sovereignty mean?

[ssd]

does it making the Uk making its own laws?

in other words the Conservative government making up the laws?

is that what leavers voted for?

I have it on fairly good authority the fishing rights will be negotiated on, and most likely remain the same, in return for a more favourable deal on other access arrangements.

Remember Nige sailing up the Thames?

I think for many Brexiters "sovereignty" is as simple as deciding whether bananas should be straight or bendy, how much fish can be caught in British waters, and deporting criminals without worrying about whether to do so would be in breach of the Convention on Human Rights

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU, so any Brexiter who voted believing it did is as thick as they come.

Despite the unicorn farts, rainbows and tough Tory talk, it's unlikely the UK will leave the ECHR. We may remove the ability of UK courts to interpret it, as it was pre-1997, but it would be a shame to leave an institution we founded and have been members of since 1948 (i.e even before the Treaty of Rome).

And if we do withdraw from the ECHR, we can kiss goodbye to an awful lot of international cooperation in security matters. It may haver suited the UK to ship British citizens to the US for torture, but I can't see any EU countries queuing up for that.

It's a tiresome exercise to challenge opponents of the ECHR to list which rights they want to give up in the name of sovereignty. I've never once had an answer, let alone a sensible one.

The ECHR was especially championed by Winston Churchill. (As was a European Union).

Of course, being American, Churchill was much more comfortable with the idea that government must be held accountable to the law of the land. But then he had some smarts.

brompton I had only 4% battery left yesterday - sorry - kahnnman won a Nobel prize about 10 years ago I think, for his work on the difference between the experiencing self and the narrating self. Basically (and I'm going on the memory of a lay person here!) K says that we have two selves - the one that lives our lives day to day, and the one that narrates our life to us as we go along. It is fascinating stuff and Harari revisits it. He did a famous experiment involving pain where he showed that a short period of pain, all at the same level, will be perceived to be worse than a longer period of the same pain, experienced immediately afterwards, but with a small period of less severe pain at the end. Everyone says that the longer experience was the least painful. We remember the worst and the last point of a painful experience.

Applied to 'political' decision making, it looks at the difference between what we experience and what we remember - and how experiences immediately before we make a decision matter so much to that decision. Needless to say, both authors do a fascinating job of explaining it, whereas I stumble along on my phone!

That's really interesting Figment. Atul Gawande talks about a similar idea in Being Mortal. I will have a read of your recommends - thanks.

I loved Atul Gawande's book - although I mainly took away from it the practical stuff like - why don't we have more birds, dogs and 'nearby schools' in our nursing homes, and 'must be sure to look after my feet'.