Brexit Arms special - the fingers on the trigger!

[surferjet]

Well here we are, almost 9 months on from the referendum & A50 is finally set to be triggered this month.
We've had petitions, marches, tantrums & tears, from the hardcore remainers desperately trying to stop the will of the people, but they can't.

So let's get the champagne out of the cellar ready & waiting - this is the last Brexit Arms thread so let's celebrate!
🍾🇬🇧🍾🇬🇧🍾🇬🇧🍾🇬🇧🍾

as a team shouldn't be assembled really until A50 is triggered

Surely we would want to be able to start our negotiations as quickly as possible (given the timescale), so we should be grateful that they don't then spend the next 6 months organising their team?

As just stated, such bizarre arguments...

cardinal Read what A50 and this from A218. This is 218.3
'3. The Commission, or the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy where the agreement envisaged relates exclusively or principally to the common foreign and security policy, shall submit recommendations to the Council, which shall adopt a decision authorising the opening of negotiations and, depending on the subject of the agreement envisaged, nominating the Union negotiator or the head of the Union's negotiating team.'

They can't nominate anyone to be Chief Negotiator unti;l A50 is triggerd and the CoM have decided who they want it to be. The Commission may want Barnier - the CoM might not.

Not a bizarre argument at all - just following what is laid down in the Lisbon treaty

Bear I am not a European citizen now, I am a British citizen. As the EU is not a federal state, or a nation in its own right, it really cannot confer citizenship, and thus you can't be a citizen.

If I was pro remain, I couldn't apply to be a citizen of the EU, but of Belgium, where I currently live.

Europe as a geographical region comprised of many countries, cannot give citizenship to anyone.

It blows my mind how you think that European citizenship is a 'thing'.

Marmitelover Why drink champagne? There's lots of lovely British fizz available, especially from the Camel Valley in Cornwall, and Tenterden in Kent - Chapel Down.

So you actually want them not to be ready to negotiate?

You do realise that we are going to have very little time to negotiate anything at all?

Are you desperate for TMs jumping off a cliff edge with no agreement in place?

Brexiters are a weird masochistic bunch...

scary I don't think European citizenship is a 'thing'.

It is a concept exploited by Leavers who are so racist, xenophobic and bigoted that they can't cope with anyone identifying with the continent in which they live. A concept which they believe justifies the maelstrom into which we've been sent by them.

bear Remainers seem very wedded to their European citizenship judging by the threads I've read on here since the referendum.

I think that you are guilty of tarring all leavers with the same brush by your allegations that they are 'racist, xenophobic and bigoted'. I also think that you are guilty of not wanting to examine too closely why people felt they wanted to vote leave.

I like Europe as a geographical place, hell, I even live there; just to the SE of Brussels. However, I despise the EU and all it stands for. I think it is a political vanity project, and that it isn't accountable, doesn't want to reform, and that it treats member states with contempt; see Greece, Italy, Cyprus, and just in the news today, Poland. Rules are applied inconsistently, and to me it seems it is all about what is best for the 'EU' as a political entity, as opposed to what is best for the inhabitants of the member states (again, see Greece).

There is a maelstrom coming for the EU even without Brexit, and even Juncker is beginning to realise that, with his recent 'oh shit' speech to the EP, where he acknowledges that the EU hasn't listened to the people. There was no status quo for which you were voting if you voted remain. Things are going to change with QMV and further enlargement. The migrant count is up again in Greece, and according to a Greek contact of mine, Germany and Turkey between them will turn Greece into a holding camp for the migrants and leave Greece to deal with it.

Turkey is unhappy with Germany, Austria and now the NL, and the EU can't do anything if Turkey decided to take its ball home with regards to the migrants. The EU has kicked the can on this one, and on Greek debt relief for a long time, and I expect that soon the Greeks might have had enough. Italy has dodgy finances as well, so it won't take much to set the whole thing off. I think we are better off out.

cardinal Don't be obtuse. The EU are sooo keen for us to stick to the 'rules', well, shouldn't they be doing the same? Mind you, nothing will happen for ages after A50 is triggered, as Easter is coming up, and the Eurocrats all bugger off for at least two weeks, if not longer.

I am organizing a party for the big day, its very exciting, we are getting our country back! Woop!

We will be more than just a back water of a failing united states of Europe. We will stand or fall on our own merits. And I am happy to take that risk because I think the people of the UK will rise up to the challenge. We always have and we always will!

I also think that you are guilty of not wanting to examine too closely why people felt they wanted to vote leave

< hollow laugh>

I have spent 9 months examine very closely why people voted to leave.

As yet, no one has come close to making me think the consequences are worth it. That's largely because Leavers never examine or consider those consequences. It's all just rhetoric and flag waving about how wonderful it will be.

I don't believe anyone thought the EU was perfect and, if a sensible plan had been in place many more of us may have opted to leave too but the fact is there wasn't, and still isn't, a robust plan yet Leavers, who we are repeatedly reminded had different reasons for voting to leave, all still think it's fabulous, despite no one being assured of anything,

Bearbehind

You still don't get it. 9 months on & you're still saying the exact same thing.
The referendum was a vote on whether we wanted to stay or leave.
We voted to leave.
That's it.
No one expected a 100 year set in stone 'plan' on what would happen once we left.
You are just being ridiculous, as I'm sure you are aware.

As yet, no one has come close to making me think the consequences are worth it
What consequences?
What do you know that I don't?
Can you tell me how things will be in 10 years time? I mean exactly, not just vague assumptions.

what consequences?

I give up

Ha!
Nice way of avoiding the question.
I'll answer it for you shall I?

The answer is you haven't got the slightest clue how things will be in 10 years time, you have no idea what the 'consequences' will be & have nothing to offer this debate apart from your usual doom & gloom rubbish.

Just placemarking to annoy Bear

surfer I'm not talking about consequences that will happen in 10 years, I agree no one can answer that with any degree of certainty.

I'm talking about the immediate Brexit related problems of

• lack of investment due to uncertainty
• inflation
• trade tariffs
• non tariff barriers
• NI
• uncertainty for families and job prospects

Do you have any thoughts on those 'consequences'?

I suspect not as I don't even think they cross your red white and blue mind.

You and so many of your fellow Leavers just seem to think this will all go away by itself- it won't.

infite you don't annoy me, I just find your inability to respond to comments about your posts tedious and I don't understand why you find it necessary to continually goad me when it's you who looks rather foolish in doing so.

Bear sweetie you get loads of responses you just won't listen.

Economic consequences may well go either way, personally I believe long term we will be better and stronger as an economy with controlled immigration and no more EU interfering. Look at New Zealand and what's happened since the removal of market skewing tariffs and subsidies for one example. You seem to believe that because I personally can't achieve the Herculean task of reassuring you I'm therefore xenophobi c, stupid and clueless. (Some of the insults you have hurled at me personally and Leavers as a whole) I am not the problem is you and yes I do goad you; after the nastiness you show it both amuses and entertains me to juxtapose humour

infinite the nastiness is in your head 'sweetie'

Just because I don't agree with much of what get posted on here doesn't make my comments nasty. In fact your comments are generally much bitchier, nastier and more personal than any I make.

Hoping everything will be ok in the long term doesn't deal with the short term does it?

The reality is you and surfer and many others don't care about the short term at the moment for reasons I can only assume are because you don't think you'll be affected so there's absolutely no point in discussing it with you.

Like I said, I can only hope you do actually come to reap what you've sown.

Thats what we are all looking forward to, Bear, we want to reap what we have sown.

How the fuck did I not know about this new thread???!!!

Fuck's sake.

Here now though!
Can't wait til Tuesday so we're finally out of the ridiculous limbo.

🍾 🥂 🍻

So Bear What would the situation be in 10 years if the vote had been to remain? NI would still be an issue as the Republicans have never gone away; there is a move to the right politically within the EU members states; the EU setting up its own defence forces would be happening as Defence is now classed as an EU competence, and so falls under QMV; further enlargement with Albania and Serbia on the list to join; Greece as a migrant holding camp; the financial problems in Greece still on going, Italy in financial crisis, and the can kicking still going on.

I don't think there were any guarantees had we stayed in, and as I didn't like the direction of travel, I voted out.

There was no status quo, and everything would not be trolling along nicely.

as I didn't like the direction of travel, I voted out.
Fantastic summing up of the Leave position and you were well within your rights to do so, we will be celebrating on Tuesday too fingers crossed

It is very important that your country (and now mine) becomes sovereign again. I am foreigner married to english man and I see that people on MN who hate Brexit are, I have to say, from overseas. Some of you think maybe this is just difference of opinion based on honest belief, but it is not. The rest are hard left people.

How do you account for Surrey being predominantly Remain Svetlana?

They are most certainly not hard Left.

Some Remainers are from overseas, as are some Leavers like Scaryteacher.

I don't think there were any guarantees had we stayed in, and as I didn't like the direction of travel, I voted out.

And thus voted for an completely uncharted direction, across rugged terrain, without a map, with flat tyres and with any other obstacle you care to add in.

I and many others have repeatedly said the the EU isn't perfect and change was inevitable but that change should have been measured and carefully thought out- a vote to Leave in this referendum was about as far from that as it is possible to be.

As expected no Leavers are going to even attempt to address concerns over the consequences I've mentioned above because you're all so trigger happy.

All that's left to do know is hope it bites you on the arse.

we used to live near guildford so know a little about Surrey. many people living in surrey are European business men sent here by their employers. Also many British people in surrey have known only life within EU, they were too young to vote in 75 and of course it is extra worrying to leave the only system you have known.