Westministenders: Brexit Britain = Gridlock Britain ?

[BigChocFrenzy]

We keep getting told the Uk can get a deal like Canada, Turkey or other non-EU countries have, without FOM.
Those deals do not provide the same privileges as EU members:
They have quotas, restrictions and must obey EU regulations

e.g. After CETA, Ron Davidson, head of international trade for the Canadian Meat Council stated:
"We do not have what we would call commercially viable access to the European market".

The deal with Turkey abolished tariffs, but did not give free acess. This is what that means:

www.ft.com/content/b4458652-f42d-11e6-8758-6876151821a6

"On a recent Saturday at the Kapikule border crossing, about 30 minutes drive from the Turkish city of Edirne, a line of trucks 4km long stretched along the highway, inching along glacially towards the Bulgarian checkpoints.
"Today is a good day", said Ibrahim Kurtukcu, a 42-year trucker who had been waiting 14 hours.
"Last week the line was 7km long".
The record is 17km. It can take up to 30 hours to get through to the other side."

Of course, UK ports (and French ports) do not have the capacity, facilities, storage space or trained staff to handle customs processing of the vast amount of British exports & imports.

Building this additional capacity - where ? - would take several years and there are no signs that even the planning stage has started.

Loved NS's return tweet btw Hashi

People can manipulated; not sure that banning people in itself helps with that.

OTOH, I'm strongly against institutions which are supposedly centres of excellence and expertise giving know-nothing big-mouths a veneer of respectibility. We've been down this route on climate change, giving ordinary people the impression of doubt and debate where none exists.

(Note that I'm not suggesting that we muzzle the approximately 2-3% of academic climate scientists who harbour doubts of various degrees; I'm advocating not giving an academic platform to people who have no academic qualifications or expertise).

I would never blame anyone because I think that we are all manipulated to a certain extend.
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For me, the latest example of manipulation is what is happening atm with fake news and the attack of social media by certain groups. How it has swung votes, both for Brexit and for Trump.

The other extreme is what is happening in American universities where you can't say anything at all because it might cause offense to one group. That sort of attitude, allegedly based on respect for others people beliefs, means that nothing can ever be discussed. That's clearly not good either.

I think misti is right. You need a balance and that balance can be hard to achieve. Some limits need to be established both in what can be said (e.g. Racist remarks) and in how much airing these ideas are given (e.g. The fact that we saw Farrage everywhere during the campaign for Brexit - why him all the time??)

YY to 'horrified realists'.

Also YY to Poundland's comment on ignorance of economics, people up in arms about NIC and individual items like Marmite while still full steam ahead on Brexit. I agree Annie's link reveals most people do not think at all. And wrt Annie's link, it once again supports the thesis that immigration and feelings of separateness are at the basis of pro Brexit sentiment. Feelings in general actually, especially those swirling around and feeding off a delusional ideology (YY to Ninon). Hard Brexit really is now bigger than May.

I don't think TM wants chaos or intends it. I just don't think she understands that she is doing everything she can to get it and therefore won't consider alternatives to her stated preferred Brexit model. I agree with Ninon - TM and the government 'believe the delusions they are peddling'.

Re. Milo, Semi, apparently there are lots of people who think Milo is very relevant and/or some kind of Brexitters voice. They think when he said things like 'there is no racism in the US' or pc had gone too far that he "gets it". It's extraordinary.

The majority of leavers I know are not 'political' people at all - they were merely caught up in the 'anti-status quo' movement. I can't see them marching or doing anything more active than very occasionally voting in the future.

Not sure is this has already been posted but it's a quite a neat little article. Not saying anything we've not been saying all along but...

'The Tinkerbell theory: I wish politicians would stop blaming their failures on my lack of belief'

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/03/tinkerbell-theory-politics-failures-my-lack-belief

So we've had unicorns and now fairies...

When are we going to go back to the real world??

I just don't get why everyone here is so negative. We are a great country we will survive., we will flourish.

I think someone needs to find the ruby slippers red

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-treasury-fears-leaked-document-article-50-theresa-may-eu-referendum-exclusive-a7624706.html

Human nature is resilient, so I am sure that we will survive. Whether we will flourish or prosper - Personally I don't see it in the short term which I would regard as at least ten years.

But - what are the Leavers doing to promote prosperity? Why aren't they flush with constructive ideas? (E.g. not Leasdom's silly ideas about selling jam.) Why isn't Dyson finding ways to invest his production in the North of England and start providing training for the staff required? Why isn't Tim Martin going all out to recruit UK staff? OK he will have to pay decently, but come on, this is what they voted for!

"Why isn't Dyson finding ways to invest his production in the North of England and start providing training for the staff required?"

I'm sure he will once UK wages have fallen to the same level as Malaysia.

Which industries do you think will flourish post-Brexit, anon?

Today's big brexit news is that the media have finally noticed that the government has no contingency plans for a situation in which talks break down and the UK defaults to WTO terms.

The Mail on Sunday has gone after David Davis personally, with a "Derelection of his Duty" banner headline above a photo.

All the wire services are also reporting on a cross-party report which is critical of the government for having no contingency plan. Some are pointing out that it makes May's threat to walk away from the table not credible (as I have been saying).

We're a great nation, the best people in the world, everybody needs us more than we need them because we're the most amazing, our sheer wondrousness even outshines Chuck Norris Facts, we are so awesome that we shall need no preparation or planning (or expert contribution or international collaboration or legal process) in order for us to Flourish (just lots of positive Feelz is all we need)...

Except that simultaneously we're utterly helpless and crushed, completely in thrall, completely subjugated and scarcely able to breathe let alone raise a finger, held back from our uniquely British birthright, by our numerous and cunning foes such as "unelected Eurocrats" "migrants stealing our jobs, homes, benefits and sperm" "the negative thoughtwaves of Remoaners"...

It's the sort of negotiating tactic my small child uses

"If I don't get what I want then you're NOT my best friend anymore and I'm leaving the house"

(Stifles giggles) Go on then, dear.

Here's a link to a picture of that extraordinary Mail on Sunday headline:

www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-39246327

Going to be some unhappy brexiters reading this over their cornflakes this morning.

Wasn't the Fail on Sunday remain? The editors of Sunday and row have issues with each other.

With potentially only 48 hours to go before the pin is pulled on A50 it's a bit late for the media to suddenly be waking up to the reality of the situation isn't it?

It was remain, but still Tory. And it has a similar readership. I think that the Mail going after Hammond has freed the MoS to go after Davis.

Has this been posted? Gina Miller on the racist abuse she's received and where it's come from.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/03/brexit-activist-gina-miller-i-never-expected-much-racist-abuse

With potentially only 48 hours to go before the pin is pulled on A50 it's a bit late for the media to suddenly be waking up to the reality of the situation isn't it?

Serious journalists (business and financial) at the quality papers have known this forever. But they don't have the circulation or the headlines.

The abuse that Gina Miller is/has received is disgusting.

Regardless of whether or not people agreed with her actions, the fact that a member of the public has the legal right to take govt to court in the UK is an example of what is actually good about this country - we are not in thrall to our leaders which is a brilliant thing.

It's awful that one woman is bearing the brunt of overwhelming misogynistic & racial hatred and I am awed by what a tenacious & strong willed person she is to still be openly challenging these people on their nastiness and bullying.

It is wrong and awful that it has fallen to just one person, and not right.
However, some good things are hopefully going to come out of this, purely because she is refusing to be cowed:

"...Philipps will appear in court on 4 April and the ruling could set a precedent for British law, Miller said: “The CPS have not charged someone who’s used social media before to incite sexual and racial violence..."

I hope that the court comes down hard on him & a precedent regarding online abuse & harassment is set.

Also, by publicly talking out about all of it, she has shone a massive light on a side of Britain that a lot of the chattering classes like to pretend doesn't exist (racism & misogyny is not the preserve of the less educated - it is rife across all socioeconomic groups - the more articulate higher groups are just better at hiding it by being publicly pc).

Anon I just don't get why everyone here is so negative. We are a great country we will survive., we will flourish.
The EU has never prevented us from flourishing. The EU did not decimate our industries: our own government did, starting a few decades ago.
A 'great country' would feel ashamed of its own citizens needing food banks.

"...Philipps will appear in court on 4 April and the ruling could set a precedent for British law, Miller said: “The CPS have not charged someone who’s used social media before to incite sexual and racial violence..."

I wonder if the Jack Monroe case of the last few days will help to establish a precedent on this? This also turned on the use of Social Media.

Interesting report here on Russia's strategies for exerting influence across Europe. Note the comments on the UK/Brexit:

•	Brexit provides a new chance for Russia to capitalize on anti-Western sentiments, spread its illiberal ideology, as well as strengthen its illiberal allies throughout Europe, since the fiercest anti-Kremlin member state, Great-Britain, has left the Union. This kind of upheaval is best exemplified by the 34 anti-EU or anti-immigration referendums already set in motion by (mostly pro-Russian) political players.10 State Duma Deputy Sergei Zheleznyak immediately called the Brexit referendum result an “expected outcome”, which might trigger “a series of referendums in other European countries, the marginalization and the collapse of the EU.” The mayor of Moscow, Sergei Sobyanin, bluntly stated that “without the U.K., there will be nobody in the EU to defend sanctions against Russia so zealously.”11 


http://www.politicalcapital.hu/wp-content/uploads/PCreactionaryyvaluesCEEE20160727.pdf