Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

I know many British people, including my husband, who feel exactly like Ian Dunt. I also know others, including friends and family of my husband who've told me "well, this is what you can expect when you go and live in another country". I have known them for 25 years, and until now I had no doubt they were nice, decent people and good friends. What I have realised is that everyone is a nice person, until things get difficult...

Misti, I would like to agree with "anything that pissed of racists is a good thing"

But in my honest opinion, from what I have seen

Anything that pisses off the racists makes racism spread.

Jaws I am so sorry. It must be horrible hearing friends say things like that from friends.

Anything that pisses off the racists makes racism spread.
Like terrorism. Shall we pander to them too? It'd be hard of course because they come from so many different angles. But don't piss them off in case they spread their cause

Apropos of nothing (?) why have I suddenly thought of the Ugandan Asians who were kicked out of Uganda in 1972 with 90 days notice.

????

One of them became my best friend at school (I'd already learned to deal with racists for myself, so it seemed natural to protect him).

"because I really worry that this sort of thing (which is undemocratic) will push the crazy xenophobes too far as it will provide them with "justification". Once they are out they are hard to put away again."

How is it undemocratic? The HoL is an integral part of our democracy. They are certainly no more unelected than Theresa May.

And what possible justification does it give anyone for being racist?

You beat me to it Kaija.

It has the potential to make people angry that a decision has been made by unelected Lords to give eu citizens a privelage that uk citizens in the eu do not have

What a pile of bollocks!

I dont know if you have been on these threads under a different guise or if you are genuinely new but have a look back through some old threads and get a feel of the tone. It has been made extremely clear by a number of Leavers (not semi and wrong would like to say) that Brits who choose to live abroad range from being foolish for relying on our FOM rights and not securing nationality of where we live to being treacherous types who hate Britain. (All delivered with a good dose of suck it ups and move on's etc.). The general consensus really is that they couldn't give less of a toss about us. Some I would go as far as to say even seem gleeful in some weird, chippy way that we may be getting our comeuppance and have to crawl back to the motherland and admit the grass isn't greener and that Yay Britain! Well I can honestly say that the Britain I left and have always loved is not the Britain I see now and I can't imagine ever wanting to live there again as long as this current climate continues. I feel I am getting angrier as the time goes on to be honest and the incompetency and the empathy bypasses become more apparent and the faux concern on my behalf is the final straw. So do me a favour, those doing this and direct your sympathy in a different direction

Making these people angry by having the undemocratic hol grant something which is not available to Britons abroad will make them angry even if (unlike me) they are not particularly worried about it.

What a bizarrely convoluted and disingenuous justification for opposing the HoL vote.

Things are looking up for the Greens too.

Poor old UKIP. Not getting much money, and not getting many Councillors elected.

What you are failing to understand is that it would have been less inflammatory if the government and the eu could come out and say they had come to an agreement of mutual benefit. Nobody wants EU citizens to be deported or the other way around I am sure.

Of course the house of Lords is undemocratic. What a ridiculous notion to claim that there is anything democratic about a bunch of unelected people get to preside overy decisions made in parliment. The house of lords is nearly as undemocratic in nature as the eu and I think it should be abolished.

Like it or no the tories were elected and tm is leader of them.

I actively would encourage anyone who is here to get permanent residency if they meet the criteria asap. I will certainly not be supporting unreasonable attempts to deport eu nationals. I think that the process for gaining residency should be less confusing for people and less dramatic in tone too.

Before the vote, leavers on here and elsewhere took great pains to assure everyone that the rights of EU nationals currently living in the UK would be unaffected by Brexit, and that changes would only apply to those wanting to come here after we had left.

The idea that we shouldn't now give this assurance after all - for fear of upsetting racists no less - is a new low.

I actively would encourage anyone who is here to get permanent residency if they meet the criteria asap
so what would you encourage EU citizens who do not meet the criteria to do? SAHMs whose partners work, or carers, or professionals who have spent a while outside UK for work/research?

It doesn't stop them making an agreement that would be in the interests of all.

There is absolutely no justification for it I'm afraid.

"Like it or no the tories were elected and tm is leader of them."

Like it or no the House of Lords is part of the UK's democracy.

I will certainly not be supporting unreasonable attempts to deport eu nationals.

Good to know. How are you defining "reasonable"?

It doesn't stop them making an agreement that would be in the interests of all.

Persuade Theresa May to drop her hectoring tone. Remind her that she said she wanted a country which works for everyone - not just those who agree with her. Although she might as well have said that, because that is what she meant.

I would have hoped that these things could have been discussed with European leaders and that an agreement could have been reached which was favourable for all those concerned who were already in the country or in the eu. Our home office is a muddle and not just for those from the eu. It really does need reform on the whole. The house of lords vote was not the way to do it.

It would have been in the interests of Europeans and uk citizens to come to an advance arrangement.

I think it was unreasonable of the eu not to consider waiving the "no negotiation pre a50 policy" on a one off issue to confirm the security of our respective citizens abroad.

That makes no sense. If you have not given notification of your intention to leave there is nothing to negotiate.

The house of lords vote was not the way to do it.

No, it could and should have been done by the House of Commons. No question of that. Shame that they seem to have totally abandoned any sense of decency they once had.

Why on earth should the rest of the EU come to advance agreements? I wonder that they don't just boot us out PDQ for being such pains in the arse.