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Brexit

Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/03/2017 19:41

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Kaija · 04/03/2017 22:50

I don't know. Kate Hoey just seems too irredeemably thick to be involved in any conspiracy. But then again that seems to be how Putin likes them.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2017 06:48

Watchdog to investigate Cambridge Analytica & effect on voting

The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO)
"The UK’s privacy watchdog is launching an inquiry into how voters’ personal data is being captured and exploited in political campaigns, cited as a key factor in both the Brexit and Trump victories last year.

"... a technology company part-owned by a US billionaire played a key role in the campaign to persuade Britons to vote to leave the European Union.

It comes as privacy campaigners, lawyers, politicians and technology experts express fears that electoral laws are not keeping up with the pace of technological change."

"“A rapid convergence in the data mining, algorithmic and granular analytics capabilities of companies like Cambridge Analytica and Facebook is creating powerful, unregulated and opaque ‘intelligence platforms’.
In turn, these can have enormous influence to affect what we learn, how we feel, and how we vote.
The algorithms they may produce are frequently hidden from scrutiny and we see only the results of any insights they might choose to publish.”

Green MP Caroline Lucas:
“Clearly, there are questions to be answered about the Leave campaign’s use of big data and a potentially huge ‘in kind’ donation by Cambridge Analytica.
To have a foreign billionaire’s fingerprints left all over such a seismic moment in British history is deeply concerning and requires urgent further investigation as to whether electoral law was broken.”

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/04/cambridge-analytics-data-brexit-trump

woman12345 · 05/03/2017 07:27

Cailleach1 still more informative than ms press, thanks!

That article also leads on to election spending
www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/vote-leave-the-canadian-it-company-and-the-ps725000-donation?utm_term=.xro49LzEO#.wq9B2DoaP

When Vote Leave approached its EU referendum campaign spending limit it donated £725,000 to related outreach organisations – which then spent it with Vote Leave’s own preferred IT company.

Looking a bit like a pattern in tories and vote leave. Hmm
Corrupt politicians, seem to be on the side with the cash to be corrupt.

Not surprised she's keen to push it through at such a break neck speed, with her little helpers.

woman12345 · 05/03/2017 07:28

That article (the CA) one BCF

Peregrina · 05/03/2017 07:44

Maybe it is a cry for help.
From May - no? I think she is too insensitive to realise that she needs help.

The Guardian had a good editorial yesterday about the corruption in/near Government - it ended by warning May to watch her step. It didn't sound positive for May at all.

Mistigri · 05/03/2017 08:42

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/01/trade-department-may-have-broken-eu-rules-with-pro-brexit-contract-criteria?CMP=share_btn_fb

I know the conversation has moved on, but seems we were right that the govt is breaking the law in imposing 'cultural fit' criteria for public procurement contracts.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2017 08:44

Another reason May & the Tory rightwing need a hard Brexit:
they don't want rules stopping crony capitalism and pork barrel politics
Look forward to Sleaze Unlimited

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2017 08:46

(it's not that the current rules are completely effective, but May & co don't want the bother of having to circumvent them)

mathanxiety · 05/03/2017 08:59

So is it Putin or is it shadowy people like Cambridge Analytica? Or is Cambridge Analytica actually Putin? And who is Robert Mercer?

My own theory on what is happening in the US is that the so far very nebulous links between Trump and Russia are being used by everyone opposed to Trump in the same way that people throw mud - to see if it will stick. It is very clear from Friday's and Saturday's developments that the Russian Ambassador has a busy schedule and has had for years, meeting with just about everybody on Capitol Hill.

www.nationalreview.com/article/438739/trump-campaigns-data-firm-partner-cambridge-analytica-worked-cruz An article from August 5, 2016.
'Inside Trump Tower, the decision to work with the data-targeting firm was fraught with controversy, according to a Trump aide familiar with the campaign’s internal conversations. After the Trump team, under pressure from the Republican National Committee and others to ramp up its ground game and voter-targeting operation, met with Cambridge Analytica officials in late June, campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner were at loggerheads: While Kushner wanted to bring the company aboard, Manafort opposed the move.'

Manafort eventually left the campaign. He was allegedly Putin's man in the Trump camp.

www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/us/politics/paul-manafort-resigns-donald-trump.html?_r=0
August 19, 2016:
Weeks of sliding poll numbers and false starts had sapped Mr. Manafort’s credibility inside the campaign. A cooling relationship with Mr. Trump — who had taken to calling Mr. Manafort “low energy,” the epithet he once used to mock a former rival, Jeb Bush — turned hot last weekend when the candidate erupted, blaming Mr. Manafort for a damaging newspaper article detailing the campaign’s internal travails, according to three people briefed on the episode.

Then a wave of reports about Mr. Manafort’s own business dealings with Russia-aligned leaders in Ukraine, involving allegations of millions of dollars in cash payments and secret lobbying efforts in the United States, threw a spotlight on a glaring vulnerability for Mr. Trump: his admiration for President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia.

By Friday morning, Mr. Manafort’s predictions to confidants that he might not be able to survive in his post had come true.

Being tripped up by allegations of links to Russia seems to be a common occurrence. I think this article illustrates the mud flinging element of the Russia business very well.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
Paul Mercer - a deep agent for Russia? Or can we at this point safely assume that people who are actually American or British are perfectly capable of not buying into the concept of democracy at all, and thanks to their enormous wealth find themselves able to pull strings and exert an influence they absolutely should not be allowed to exert.

...since 2010, Mercer has donated $45m to different political campaigns – all Republican – and another $50m to non-profits – all rightwing, ultra-conservative. This is a billionaire who is, as billionaires are wont, trying to reshape the world according to his personal beliefs.

Robert Mercer very rarely speaks in public and never to journalists, so to gauge his beliefs you have to look at where he channels his money: a series of yachts, all called Sea Owl; a $2.9m model train set; climate change denial (he funds a climate change denial thinktank, the Heartland Institute); and what is maybe the ultimate rich man’s plaything – the disruption of the mainstream media. In this he is helped by his close associate Steve Bannon, Trump’s campaign manager and now chief strategist. The money he gives to the Media Research Center, with its mission of correcting “liberal bias” is just one of his media plays. There are other bigger, and even more deliberate strategies, and shining brightly, the star at the centre of the Mercer media galaxy, is Breitbart.

It was $10m of Mercer’s money that enabled Bannon to fund Breitbart – a rightwing news site, set up with the express intention of being a Huffington Post for the right. It has launched the careers of Milo Yiannopoulos and his like, regularly hosts antisemitic and Islamophobic views, and is currently being boycotted by more than 1,000 brands after an activist campaign. It has been phenomenally successful: the 29th most popular site in America with 2bn page views a year. It’s bigger than its inspiration, the Huffington Post, bigger, even, than PornHub. It’s the biggest political site on Facebook. The biggest on Twitter.

Prominent rightwing journalist Andrew Breitbart, who founded the site but died in 2012, told Bannon that they had “to take back the culture”. And, arguably, they have, though American culture is only the start of it. In 2014, Bannon launched Breitbart London, telling the New York Times it was specifically timed ahead of the UK’s forthcoming election. It was, he said, the latest front “in our current cultural and political war”. France and Germany are next.

But there was another reason why I recognised Robert Mercer’s name: because of his connection to Cambridge Analytica, a small data analytics company. He is reported to have a $10m stake in the company, which was spun out of a bigger British company called SCL Group. It specialises in “election management strategies” and “messaging and information operations”, refined over 25 years in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan. In military circles this is known as “psyops” – psychological operations. (Mass propaganda that works by acting on people’s emotions.)

Cambridge Analytica worked for the Trump campaign and, so I’d read, the Leave campaign. When Mercer supported Cruz, Cambridge Analytica worked with Cruz. When Robert Mercer started supporting Trump, Cambridge Analytica came too. And where Mercer’s money is, Steve Bannon is usually close by: it was reported that until recently he had a seat on the board.

Last December, I wrote about Cambridge Analytica in a piece about how Google’s search results on certain subjects were being dominated by rightwing and extremist sites. Jonathan Albright, a professor of communications at Elon University, North Carolina, who had mapped the news ecosystem and found millions of links between rightwing sites “strangling” the mainstream media, told me that trackers from sites like Breitbart could also be used by companies like Cambridge Analytica to follow people around the web and then, via Facebook, target them with ads.

On its website, Cambridge Analytica makes the astonishing boast that it has psychological profiles based on 5,000 separate pieces of data on 220 million American voters – its USP is to use this data to understand people’s deepest emotions and then target them accordingly. The system, according to Albright, amounted to a “propaganda machine”.

mathanxiety · 05/03/2017 09:00

Not Paul but Robert, not sure how the name Paul appeared there...

Kaija · 05/03/2017 09:07

What seems to be gradually emerging from the fog is that a lot of those shadowy people have pretty strong connections with Putin.

I have to say I cannot see how there is anything nebulous about Trump's links with Russia.

Kaija · 05/03/2017 09:13

That's not to say that they are all working for Putin, but rather working with: there is an alignment of interests (oil bring the obvious example), and of ideology (see Bannon/Dugin).

woman12345 · 05/03/2017 09:14

I don't know if it's very nebulous, math.
Kushner is in considerable debt to Russia. Tillerson has considerable oil links to Russia. Trump is useful idiot.
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-and-the-new-cold-war

Mistigri · 05/03/2017 09:32

the Russian Ambassador has a busy schedule and has had for years, meeting with just about everybody on Capitol Hill.

Well, of course, but often in public, but if not, then via normal channels. Using party funds to meet secretly with the person who is widely assumed to be Russia's US spy chief isn't normal behaviour by any stretch of the imagination.m

The problem is that dishonesty leads people to speculate, and given the accumulation of circumstantial evidence, to draw the obvious conclusions. There's an easy, if painful, way to deal with this: a nonpartisan inquiry, and effective sanctions for government officials shown to have lied under oath.

Cailleach1 · 05/03/2017 10:14

"This is a billionaire who is, as billionaires are wont, trying to reshape the world according to his personal beliefs."

I don't know if Aaron Banks is a billionaire, but he is very wealthy. I thought of him and his new ==and past== endeavours straight away.

His aim to dig Carswell out and the conflation of his new endeavours interference with democracy. How his wishes are the democratic will of the people. And if they aren't now, he will use his cash to try to make sure they will be in time.

That is just my opinion, though!

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2017 10:33

Math I think your admiration for Putin (iirc related to his hostility towards Muslim militants) blinds you to what is going on.

Rightwing oligarchs have common interests, so it is natural US and Uk ones would ally with Putin. who runs Russia for the oligarchs

Much further down the feeding chain, Russia invested in a great number of "bots" before the Brexit referendum, the US election and has ramped up bots and fake news to try to infere in the French & German elections.
Putin is throwing petrol on the fires in Europe and the US. Yes those fires already existed, but pwtrol makes them so much worse.

That's not unexpected tactics, when you have an ex-KGB hood running a country that is far too weak economically and even militarily to compete with the West:
Putin has to create divisions betwen Western countries, so they are not a common front against his basket case Russia - he can't fix Russia.
The rift between the US and Europe was his dream goal.

Putin is a fascist, but a brilliantly successful one who has leveraged political victories, because Western fovernments realised far too late what he is doing.

However, if he displeases the hard case oligarchs in Russia, if they aren't getting enough loot, hiis days will be numbered.

Mistigri · 05/03/2017 10:43

Putin's an extraordinary successful kleptocrat, perhaps the most successful that there has ever been. Most kleptocrats end up destroying the thing which made them fabulously wealthy (see: any African dictatorship, with Mugabe being the text book example) - but Putin has somehow managed to keep the huge machine going, albeit with the occasional splutter. It speaks volumes for his intelligence and his extraordinary political instincts, as well - of course - for his utter ruthlessness.

Cailleach1 · 05/03/2017 12:05

Don't know the full story, but allegedly the DUP (or Foster and Morrow at least) commandeered a room at the polling station (it was a school, I think), complete with a couple of security people guarding access to the room. It seems they were subsequently asked to vacate themselves from the commandeered room.

Everyone is allowed to have a chat in private, but I suppose it is the fact it was a public space and they were obviously preventing people from entering that rubbed people up the wrong way. A small thing, but not endearing.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-assembly-election/arlene-fosters-private-room-at-omagh-count-raises-eyebrows-35500546.html

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2017 12:37

When Sinn Fein become the largest party, possibly even at the next elections, can they commandeer a room with security too ?
I presume the DUP would be happy to have their noses rubbed in, once they are toppled as top dogs.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/03/2017 12:38

noses rubbed in it < hair trigger iPad >

Cailleach1 · 05/03/2017 12:58

What, I think the point is that the polling station is a public space and all putting themselves up for election are all exactly the same. That is why they were told to move. As I expect Sinn Féin or any other party or candidate would be. That was the gist i got from the article. It doesn't matter if you are a big party or Susan-Anne White who wants gays imprisoned and feminism abolished, no less. And she got something like 40/45 votes. She must have a big family.

Other parties may grow more in future, even non-sectarian ones! 1 people before profit Alliance, 2 Green and 8 Alliance. Small, but it isn't nothing. I don't know if she was getting comments 'cos of the RHI. Mind you she had security. I am assuming they were privately hired. If police, maybe a deeper issue.

I realise Candidates/parties do of course have a lot to mull over/analyse and tot up. Maybe it was the security at the door that got people's backs up. I don't think it is a big thing if the room wasn't being used anyway. But if one candidate/party gets it, then if I was a candidate I would want my one too!

Tanith · 05/03/2017 13:02

Back to Local politics: someone was asking about the Surrey County Council tax. You'll be very glad to know that the 15% rise has indeed been abandoned. This was not due to the intervention of the Government - that is a bigly lie!

No, it's merely a "Gentleman's Agreement". Nothing much gentlemanly about it that we can see, but there we go 😊

www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/gentlemans-agreement-government-ahead-15-12578118

Cailleach1 · 05/03/2017 13:07

The money must be coming from somewhere, Tanith. Some other service must be losing some funding. Peter for Paul. Unless you're wrong about the bigly lie. But the government would never be so deceitful and try to hornswaggle the public, would they?

ElenaGreco123 · 05/03/2017 14:05

DH can't get it into his head how the election fraud is not bigger news. Bless! He still lives in a 20th century little bubble.

I find it hilarious when Farage and Banks say UKIP is unprofessional when they were in charge of it until about November. It really is their mess, not Nuttall's.

Badders123 · 05/03/2017 14:26

That was me tanith
Thanks