Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

So no independent House of Lords and effective journalism may soon be illegal.

The populace have their champions the House of Commons working in their best interests at all times. Why would they need any other institutions that up to now have been considered the hallmarks of a democratic body politic? [sarcasm]

There comes a point where it must be asked whether the insistence on complete secrecy about Brexit is evidence of a very worrying personality defect in the Prime Minister.

Maybe there is method to the madness? You slip in a measure ostensibly for use in extremis (as defined by Theresa May) but keep it on the statute books afterwards so that it can be used to refashion a brave new Britannia of serfs and their masters.

That sounds about right math :Orwellian.

It is Orwellian, math, but disturbingly many people will be wholeheartedly applauding these measures - since June 24, how many calls have there been for Shut Up, Suck It Up, Don't Talk Britain Down, Enemies Of The People, Unelected BlahBlah, Traitors Who Don't Believe Should Be Exiled/Imprisoned...

And frankly, even the most (shall we say) fervent of posts I've seen on MN are positively mild compared to the moderate, wise, well-thought-out and not at all fascist sentiments held by many people "in the real world".

effective journalism may soon be illegal

Most other countries are looking for ways to fight fare news.

Seems the UK is trying a novel strategy of just legitimising it.

mother looks like you're right, links to a daft interview, whoops! Apologies everyone!

There are various law references musing on this post ref, and this is not a source I've seen before, nevertheless, looks like there will be a legal 'gap' which may have to be filled.

www.dlapiper.com/en/uk/insights/publications/2016/07/the-trade-secrets-directive/

www.taylorwessing.com/download/article-brexit-and-uk-law-in-2017.html

And more general concerns about freedom of speech:

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/13/ex-gchq-whistleblower-attacks-plans-to-extend-dragnet-of-secrecy-act

A former GCHQ whistleblower has condemned plans by government lawyers to increase prison sentences and expand the definition of espionage for the digital age.

Very commendable to not use EU people settled in the U.K. and morally right of course, but if we agree to this we leave our citizens at the mercy of hard line European negotiators.

So EU citizens are protected but our own citizens living in the EU are hung out to dry? A very poor negotiating tactic

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/13/ex-gchq-whistleblower-attacks-plans-to-extend-dragnet-of-secrecy-act
Former GCHQ whistleblower Katharine Gun:
“It seems to me that we are living in an increasingly unfree society. The government and its intelligence and security apparatus have amassed ever broader and deeper powers through legislation like the Justice and Security Act 2013 and the Investigatory Powers Act 2016. These laws enable it to survey all private communications and online activity, carry out bulk collection and storage of data, hack private devices, detain and interrogate at whim and demand CMP [closed material procedures] in court, preventing evidence and information from being disclosed in the interest of national security.

“If the proposals to reform or rewrite the OSA extend the overall dragnet nature of the act, increase the penalty limit and disregard a public interest defence, it will exacerbate the concentration of power in the hands of the government and deter or even prevent whistleblowers from revealing government lies and abuse of power."...

...Commenting on the Law Commission proposals, the Liberal Democrat peer and civil liberties campaigner Paul Strasburger said:“This attempt to suppress dissent and prevent the public knowing the truth is typical of Mrs May’s time at the home office. She has carried the same authoritarian approach into Brexit by doing everything she can to limit debate and keep voters in the dark.

“These proposals might be appropriate for a banana-republic dictatorship. They are completely out of the question in our democracy which depends on brave whistleblowers and a free press to hold the government to account when they let us down through incompetence or corruption."

Note - A member of that reprehensible, unelected and therefore undemocratic body, the House of Lords, speaks out on behalf of civil liberty and accountability. The cheek of him.

That link about the man from Zimbabwe is shocking. What is happening to this country? How long will it be before TM sets up a department monitoring crimes committed by immigrants à la Trump?

Very commendable to not use EU people settled in the U.K. and morally right of course, but if we agree to this we leave our citizens at the mercy of hard line European negotiators.

You won't prevent Spain deporting British pensioners by threatening to remove a million East Europeans. It doesn't work like that. There is a fundamental asymmetry here.

Moreover, Spain isn't going to deport British pensioners; what will happen is that they remove themselves because the British government will not guarantee their healthcare or their pensions uprating, and because the value of their pensions has been eroded by sterling's collapse.

So EU citizens are protected but our own citizens living in the EU are hung out to dry? A very poor negotiating tactic

Let's quit the sham concern for Britons in the EU (of which I am one). Most of us didn't get a vote; were you up in arms about that too? We don't want the cynical "support" of racists and little Englanders.

This is a terrible, intellectually shallow, morally bankrupt argument used only by brexit-or-busters who are the root cause of any future problems for Britons in the EU. Do not pretend to represent my interests.

EU getting tough on US visas:
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/europe-visa-free-travel-americans-european-parliament-vote-a7609406.html
"The European Parliament has voted to end visa-free travel for Americans within the EU.
It comes after the US failed to agree visa-free travel for citizens of five EU countries – Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania – as part of a reciprocity agreement. US citizens can normally travel to all countries in the bloc without a visa".

Child dressed as Queen accuses Nigel Farage of hating foreigners while knighting him
“My mummy says you hate foreigners.”
www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2017/03/watch-child-dressed-queen-accuses-nigel-farage-hating-foreigners-while

I am a UK expat, like a few others on this thread
Gettng tough on E27 expats on the UK does NOT help me

Only in the Uk is there real public pressure to stop EU immigration.
Other countries regard it as mostly beneficial, because they have aging populations and expats provide needed skills

The only real danger to me is if May decides to pick on East European expats in the UK
because they are the largest group, the ones that the public seem to resent most.
May could get praise in the Fail & Express by lowering total EU numbers like that

As the EU vote on US visas shows,
the EU as a whole may retaliate when another country cherrypicks deals with richer EU countries and discriminates against Eastern Europe

Has the bingo started?

Tenbit revealed the true reason so many rightwing Brexiters (not Lexiters) opposed the HoL amendment:

"Lord Tebbit accused peers of
'thinking of nothing but the rights of foreigners' during Brexit debate"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-lord-tebbit-right-eu-nationals-foreigners-comments-a7606456.html

At least he didn't express faux concern for EU expats.
He has never bothered to pretend empathy - he notoriously said the Uk unemployed "get on their bikes" to look for work

Seems so elena. I think woman has the best experience here so should produce us a bingo card

BigChoc, "The SDLP suffered their worst-ever result, with only about 11% share of the vote.

Tight finish for largest party / First Minister after first preference votes gave Sinn Fein 27.9 % vs DUP 28.08 %"

This has translated into an increase % of seats for the SDLP. They have over 13% of the seats. last election they only had 11% of seats. Because of only 90 seats now instead of 108. They did well on transfers.

The UUP % seats reduced from nearly 15% to 12%.

The big change is among parties that chose a Nationalist or Unionist designation. The Nationalist 'grouping' has 30 seats and the Unionist 'grouping' also has 30 seats (if you include Claire Sugden, independent Unionist and TUV). The DUP has lost it's veto as it doesn't have 30 seats on it's own.

Ballsy (or should I say boobsy) speech for the very last seat. Green Party Clare Bailey.

twitter.com/RBlackBT/status/837863518506532868?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

After the first guy (DUP), Clare makes her speech.

Foster's campaign contributed to getting people out to vote for Sinn Féin.

Thanks, Cailleach Glad to hear that the early report I read was wrong about SDLP - I don't think papers take as much care with checking about Ni elections.

Cailleach what was the impact of the increase in the Alliance vote? Is there a danger of the SF success making Unionists wary about voting Alliance in future?

I did not realise the number of seats changed in Stormont. I spent half an hour trying to work out how so many parties can lose seats, while no other party gains. Even the BBC did not explain it properly.

Very good article by Katherine Gun, another key para:

It was the present prime minister Theresa May who was the ‘Big Sister’ and original architect of the snoopers’ charter. We need to protect the public from a government which seems intent on threatening journalists from finding information the government finds inconvenient to be exposed. Democracy is under attack when a government does all it can to do its business in secret.

Two Orwell quotes are relevant:

'We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.'

'the consciousness of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing-over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival.'

We must oppose this creeping authoritarianism based on the spurious notion that it is all for our own security and protection. It is not.

Good, clear summary here - 'Anthony Hilton: Disaster lurks in May’s empty bluff on trade' www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-disaster-lurks-in-may-s-empty-bluff-on-trade-a3480301.html

Cailleach1 thanks for the great summary.

Foster's campaign contributed to getting people out to vote for Sinn Féin, Maybe May has just done the same for SNP?

OK Hashi today's bingo suggestions include:
Sharing the pain on EU migrants and 'expats'( spot that one too), but needing to stand firm to negotiate with duplicitous EU. (use a reasonable 'more in sorrow than in anger' tone today)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39167350
"Protesters on the #OurNHS march. Organisers claim that "at least 250,000" people are taking part in the march". Big.

The NHS can be the reason that will trip TM. That's not something that people will be happy to see going and it's very clear that it is atm. Esp when she has decided to REDUCE the amount spent person when the situation has been described as a humanitarian crisis...