Westministers: The Lords Strike Back

[RedToothBrush]

This needs no fanfare or lengthy post. Just this:

The Lords are demanding amendments unilateral protection for EU citizens.

Labour was split 358 for an amendment to 256 against.

This is after Amber Rudd had tried to reassure the Lords by writing a letter assuring peers that EU citizens would be treated with the utmost respect.

Utmost respect = an amendment to guarantee unilateral support.

Today is a good day. It should have been done in the first place.

Exactly they like our racists just the same stupid mentality.

They are like

Someone needs to tell me the bingo rules.

Just to join the crew of those missing the point completely: Last year I took very English DS to holiday in Scotland. We were already across the border when we realised he is wearing his red England coat. We actually went to one of these county fair type things. No one ever said a word, and DS is loud and hard to miss.

Europe's most dangerous building - in Sellafield

"It is the world’s largest stockpile of civilian plutonium — one of the most toxic substances on the planet.

https://www.ft.com/content/9b99159e-ff2a-11e6-96f8-3700c5664d30

"All trading and transportation of nuclear materials by EU countries, from fuel for reactors to isotopes used in cancer treatments, is governed by Euratom.
The UK now faces a scramble to assemble a new regulatory regime to uphold safety standards, while negotiating dozens of international agreements needed to maintain access to nuclear technology."

Negotiations to change nuclear agreements are always lengthy and complicated
If the govt has no other transition deal, it must have one for the nuclear industry, which supplies 20% of UK energy.
Howevr, that crosses govt red lines because it would rely on the European Commission (the EU’s executive) and the European Court of Justice

"a nuclear specialist at Prospect Law, a London law firm, told a parliamentary hearing this week that the UK was “sleepwalking” to disaster:
“If we do not get this right, business stops,” he said. “If we cannot arrive at safeguards and other principles which allow compliance [with international standards] no nuclear trade will be able to continue.”

"if Britain walks away without a formal Brexit deal — as Mrs May has threatened — they may have no choice.
“There will be nothing we can do,” says another senior EU-27 diplomat who will play a key role in talks.
“If they walk away, forget about nuclear medicine . . . we have no legal framework.
Who is going to take the risk of sending material to a non-authorised entity?”

Yes tourists are generally accepted and so are people who live here from most nationalities as it is in the rest of the uk. What I was talking about was the behaviour of a minority and this is almost always the case. Most people everywhere do not want to hate.
I am sure a person can go on holiday to Egypt and be treated with the upmost respect as a tourist. Living there may well be different. Nobody minds tourists popping in to spend money.

YER you are treated as an immigrant in Scotland, being English? What utter nonsense. Racially abused?
I am just going to shout in a pillow for a bit now.

After you've finished shouting into your pillow, I'd like to stick up a bit for YER wrt English folk in Scotland.

The anti-English sentiment is atrocious in some areas - where migrants from across the world and with a range of skin colours are welcomed, to be English is to be spat at, beaten up and treated with contempt.

I experienced it myself when I moved back to Scotland as a 14 yr old after some years away - luckily I was well able to fight back & my accent came back again pretty quick so I was able to fit in again within a couple of years.

Moving further up north as an adult, I witnessed again, several times 'the English' being assaulted.
Fucking incomers etc.

Contrary to the tartan & shortbread welcoming Scots rhetoric it's tough up there if you don't 'fit'.

(Saying that, I love it up there & would move back up in a heartbeat...!)

if they walk away, forget about nuclear medicine
Well I suppose that will temporarily lift the NHS crisis in staffing terms at least. Some of those specialists can shift to fill the gaps elsewhere

BiGChoc Your Sellafield stuff is indeed terrifying - which just goes to show that the clowns in charge of Brexit haven't got a clue.

I wonder how the people of Copeland will feel if their industry stops? Will they still be happy with a Tory MP?

To be very clear. The instances I can think of can in no way whatsoever be considered "banter" even if your sense of humour is very dark.

I am off to find a happier thread.

Hope everything works out for everyone in the end and lico gets confirmation about his pension

Cheers semi

I wonder how the people of Copeland will feel if their industry stops? Will they still be happy with a Tory MP?
I have to say I wondered why there was an argument that they voted Tory because of nuclear issues and could not figure it out given we've been dragged out of euratom. Then I remembered Corbyn .

Like fourdragons , I also don't recognise this Scotland of which YER speaks.

And I am someone who has a "posh" accent that people often mistake for English or Northern Irish .

I've traveled a lot around Scotland, both for work and for sporting events in which ds is participating (cycling and rugby), so meet people from all around the place - and yes, including England . Many of my colleagues were/are English. One of the friends that I made via MN "emigrated" from England before the Independence Referendum precisely because she wanted to vote Yes (and because she feared the direction England was taking and her fears have come true ). She says she never wants to go back - that Scotland has become her true home. She specifically mentions that her dd (8 when she came) has not been teased and is very happy here.

Maybe it is just that Glasgow is more welcoming of people from all over the world including England

I could deny racism against pakistanis in england. Doesn't mean it isn't there.

Bye all

YER I agree with you. This thread isnt a happy one.

And maybe the truth between here and the happy threads of brexiters.

BigChoc this is crazy. Why oh why is it not talked about in the mainstream press???
And we've just agreed to have another built too....

BigChoc The EURATOM and nuclear strategy thing is absolutely terrifying.

I for one don't believe any Leaver who says they aren't surprised or concerned about us pulling out of EURATOM (there have previously been posts like "duh, we knew we were voting to leave absolutely everything with EU- in the name").

Instead, I entirely expect that the response will be more shoulder-shrugging and hand-washing of responsibility to even think about issues arising. When I tried to ask about EURATOM previously, I got that, plus outraged sneering "Oh, so you would only allow PhD physicists the right to vote" or something similar .

Just because people voted for brexit does not mean we want everyone to go home
YER - you have asserted this several times. I do hope you've been badgering your MP, the PM etc, to let them know that as a Leave voter you abhor any suggestion that EU citizens should be used as bargaining chips.

You obviously have a lot of time on your hands, so I do hope you're using some of it to let the government know that you are disgusted at the xenophobia unleashed by the referendum result and that this is very definitely not what you voted for.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-bill-latest-house-lords-theresa-may-defeat-eu-departure-no-deal-nationals-right-to-stay-a7609391.html

Peers say Theresa May is heading for another thumping Brexit defeat in the House of Lords, to prevent her crashing Britain out of the EU with ‘no deal”.

Both Labour and the Liberal Democrats believe they comfortably have the numbers to win a crunch vote next Tuesday to ensure Parliament has a ‘meaningful vote’ on the Prime Minister’s exit terms.

Crucially, a new amendment to the Article 50 Bill would bind Ms May to obtain Parliament’s approval to leave the EU “without an agreement as to the applicable terms”.

More, if more is needed, on what leaving the single market and the customs union is likely to mean for the automotive industry in the UK.

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

As has been pointed out by other posters, it's not just the finished cars, it's the components.

What hope there is of creating a UK supply chain for car-making factories, I don't know.

I know someone who worked at a now-closed UK automotive components plant, which in 20 years never got a contract with Nissan or Honda, because its quality wasn't deemed high enough.

Also, I remember when everyone bought Ford cars (usually second hand) and if they were in the know used to look under the bonnet. If the components were branded Lucas, and therefore made in the UK, you didn't buy the car. If they were branded Bosch, you might well make an offer.

If setting up a UK supply chain is likely to be costly and without a guarantee that the products will be suitable, as the Grauniad story says, why won't manufacturers just put the money into building plants in EU countries instead, and avoid at least some of the problems.

Having working in the car industry, I can tell you that, even if the companies who could do were already set up, they would struggle to be ready in two years time.
The setting up of the process, tools necessary to produce the parts etc etc is something that will takes at least a year. That is, if said company knows what they are doing because yes, the level of quality needed is crazy.

Plus, the car manufacturers have very little stock so there is no room for error. Having being one in front of said manufacturers when you have to rework cars or god forbid stop the line, I cannot see how one would manage that wo prior experience.

Yer bye

If setting up a UK supply chain is likely to be costly and without a guarantee that the products will be suitable, as the Grauniad story says, why won't manufacturers just put the money into building plants in EU countries instead, and avoid at least some of the problems.

The auto supply chain thing is bemusing, many of these components have relatively few suppliers internationally and the barriers to entry are considerable (and not just financial: there are technical hurdles too.)

Bridgend one from yesterday:
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/bridgend-reels-from-jobs-threat-hanging-over-ford-plant

The reason why they don't is that they don't want to integrate vertically the whole system (you do say that in English??).
The skills required to mould plastic parts or build a gearbox are completely different than the ones needed to build a car too so they will not have the experience and the knowledge.
It would be similar than asking a builder to also produce the tiles that he using for the roofs iyswim.

And finally, it's cheaper. Prices are run down to the bottom. No need to hold stocks as suppliers are doing it for you etc etc.