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Brexit
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Stop the silence

389 replies

Niamer · 26/02/2017 16:27

We have heard much talk about "the will of the people" recently. If you are not one of the people supporting the Tory hard Brexit or "Brexit at any cost", you may be interested in "Stop the silence", which gives a voice to the rest of us - those who voted Leave thinking of a Norway-style model, those who thought they were saving the NHS, those who voted Remain. Please like on FB and re-tweet.
www.stopthesilence.co.uk

OP posts:
YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 22:34

Socialism is a very good vehicle for a dictatorship.

It is always an empty vehicle when it arrives at it's destination, hence the night of the long knives. The point is it gets people to a position where the government are completely unchallengable.

I agree with the moderate right thing. It has gone a little too right for me personally, but it is probably a knee jerk reaction to the likes of Corbyn and the snp and the aims of an ever closer Europe.

If everyone could just get a grip that would be nice, but I fear it is unlikely.

Bananagio · 28/02/2017 22:50

Do people really say things like "suck it up buttercup" in real life Hmm? Sheep-like, twitter regurgitating idiocy! And what is it with these regular attempts at painting all Remainers as left wing? Lexiters anyone? I am left wing however on this issue I find myself firmly aligned with lots of the Tory party I rallied against in my younger days (Major, Clarke et al) and (through gritted teeth) with Osborne rather than standing with Kate Hooey and Frank Fields whose politics in other areas are far closer to mine than the aforementioned trio. And as for the attempts to rebrand Nazism as left wing! Hmm.

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 22:50

There is always going to be negative news on both sides of this debate.
I don't like donald trump any more than anyone else.
You might not like TM but I bet she can be a cow if you cross her. We need someone like her at the moment.

She has a steely and unflappable nerve and bigger balls than the donald.

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 22:52

No rebranding it is a simple fact I am afraid.

Peregrina · 28/02/2017 23:01

I bet she can be a cow if you cross her.

Or she's just a nasty piece of work full stop. I won't insult cows. Having steely and unflappable nerves is a good recommendation when jumping off a cliff, thinking it's a bungee jump. It won't be any good finding out it's not.

The Trump has no balls, so anyone can do better than him.

Kaija · 28/02/2017 23:05

The idea of extreme right wing regimes being redefined as left wing is rather less interesting than the question of why someone would seek to do this. It is curious.

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 23:10

She is clever and thinks carefully before she acts/speaks that will be a massive help when dealing with Mr too many tweets Trump and for negotiating our way out of Europe. If she was warm, personable and flexible we wouldn't stand a chance.

She does not come accross very warmly, but I don't think she is that awful actually. I think most of the scariness is external.

Peregrina · 28/02/2017 23:15

Personally, I don't think May is all that clever. She does think before she speaks, but IMO is very blinkered and lacks vision. The sort of person who would be fine as PM in a period of stability, just pushing the legislation through. Not one for the present times, with huge areas of uncertainty in many parts of the globe.

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 23:15

It is a simple fact.

Socialism and also communism are often the vehicle that gets people in to the position of ultimate power where they can do so much damage. I'm sorry but it is a fact.

I know lots of nice people that think they are doing the right thing with supporting socialist causes. I'm not trying to paint you out as fascists, but it is a simple fact that is repeated again and again in history.

Peregrina · 28/02/2017 23:17

I lot of us don't support socialism, so what exactly was your point?

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 23:20

I know people would prefer to think it is something to do with the right, but to say that is simply not true and it is repeated again and again and again.

There seems to be complete hysteria around even moderate right wing politics and I am just trying to explain that there is not necessarily any need to have a meltdown although trump is a twat right wing is not always the bad guy.

Peregrina · 28/02/2017 23:22

It depends on the level of right or left wing. Extremes are bad of either sort.

Kaija · 28/02/2017 23:25

These are some strange twists and turns you are taking, Yer.

If, as it seems now, all you are saying is that totalitarian regimes can come from the right or the left, that's fine.

Is that what you were saying?

Kaija · 28/02/2017 23:27

It would make no difference if May was the most skilled negotiator the country has ever seen. If you've got no cards and everyone can see it, you're not winning.

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 23:29

I am not saying you do, but I have seen "the rise of the right" used often along with "fascism" to terrorise people about brexit.

I just wanted to spell out the fact that "the rise of the left" could be just as terrifying so there is no need to panic quite on the scale that people are.

I hope pepole will not fall in to the trap and will recognise the "will of the people" because it was a democratic process. We voted and the decision is made.

She can not go in to negotiations with her hands tied on loads of issues or she will not have enough leeway to come out with a good deal. We can not just walk in to the EU and say we want this, we want that. We voted and we need to let her do her job. Pressurising the government on this will not make the job easier.

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 28/02/2017 23:31

We have plenty of cards.

Kaija · 28/02/2017 23:35

Plenty? I am all ears.

Did you read what the new US Secretary of Commerce said?

whatwouldrondo · 28/02/2017 23:36

YERerse what an extraordinary post. There is absolutely no evidence in there that you either read my points properly or have actually read anything about China beyond knowing Mao established a Communist regime in 1949. Don't worry, I have read plenty of academic sources, digestible and otherwise, in the course of studying for an MA in Chinese Studies (and living and working in China, and still being involved in Chinese markets) and I can assure you I am not brainwashed. What in those statements about post Deng China do you disagree with? I would add in that Deng was the first to explicitly revert to the ruling mandate of the Confucian Emperors in the way that throughout the 80s he listened to the ideas about the government of China being put forward by the intellectuals just as it was the duty of Confucian emperors to listen to the literati, even going down to Tiannanmen Square in the early days of those protests. Do you really think China is now Communist beyond lip service to the legacy of Mao? And for my points on the famine read Frank Dikotters book " Maos Great Famine" which is actually very digestible for such a widely researched academic study. I don't disagree that Mao established a Communist regime in 1949 but I would argue that he was also following traditions of Chinese rule as much as he was any sort of western Communist philosophy, he was very open about his admiration of the Qin Emperor, and it was a source and justification of his nationalism. I would enjoy a chance to debate some evidenced and nuanced arguments but if you are going to just roll out a load of lazy stereotypes......

Peregrina · 28/02/2017 23:38

I just wanted to spell out the fact that "the rise of the left" could be just as terrifying
It could easily be, but we haven't got a left wing government at present, and nor does it look likely.

May would do well to remember that as she does things by decree. She won't be in power for ever, and she might well find legislation she has brought in being used against her.

Someone with more wisdom than she appears to be displaying would realise that she needs to pick the brains of as many informed people as possible, if she wants to make sound decisions.

twofingerstoEverything · 01/03/2017 07:00

YERerseISootTHEwindy - saying 'it is a very simple fact' when you express an opinion does not change the fact that it's an opinion!
There seems to be complete hysteria around even moderate right wing politics and I am just trying to explain that there is not necessarily any need to have a meltdown although trump is a twat right wing is not always the bad guy.
You do realise that what we're witnessing at present is NOT 'moderate' right wing politics? Again your use of hyperbole like 'meltdown', 'hysteria', etc., undermines your argument. It is a common strategy to try to paint opponents as fools or hysterics, but we've heard these words so much over the past few months (along with 'elite', etc.) that they've lost any power they might once have had and only reflect badly on the writer.

Mistigri · 01/03/2017 07:13

We have plenty of cards

What's written on them, though?

Getting your cards used to be a euphemism for being fired ;)

YERerseISootTHEwindy · 01/03/2017 07:34

I can now see why you are upset what would, believe me what I say is certainly not intended as a slur to china.

I still consider China to be communist yes, but rot as radical as before in my view.

My point was to show that communism and socialism can often be used to devastating effect on the population.

Mistigri · 01/03/2017 07:42

A person who thinks, in 2017, that China is a "communist" state pretty much disqualifies themselves from being taken seriously on any subject at all.

In many respects the notion of market economics is more firmly anchored in Chinese culture these days than it is in the West. Have you ever been there or done business there?

Kaija · 01/03/2017 07:50

Would still love to hear about those cards.