Westministenders: Boris and God Knows what next. (I'm all out of ideas!)

[RedToothBrush]

Still a week until Stoke and Copeland. (Labour Hold/Con Gain unless something strange happens) QT is from Stoke next week.

A50 hits the Lords next week. Melania is being lined up to do something for the women. (God help us all).

Will UKIP survive? Will Nuttall survive? Will Labour survive? Will Trump survive? Will CNN survive? Will the Lords survive? Will Theresa May survive a class room of children?

All these questions and more

woman12345

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik

Poll results:

Many thanks lurking, successful science isn't racist, would be the moral I take from that reference! And the divine justice of Hitler's anti semiticism at least partially sabotaging his nuclear programme.

Funny that the BBC is fluffing for Le Pen, dramatising the friendly face of fascism and ignoring the actual Nazi culture that has always existed in the US:
untappedcities.com/2015/04/02/this-former-nazi-town-on-long-island-with-adolf-hitler-street-still-exists/
In Long Island, not in the mental cracker south.
www.goodreads.com/book/show/1681418.The_Ultimate_Solution
(not read it so can't recommend)
Apart from dear old Len Deighton, there are lots of actual and fictional examples of successful 3rd Reich in the US, let alone the one that May has collaborated with.

Have this been covered? From the FT:

[[https://www.ft.com/content/4466ffbc-f6aa-11e6-bd4e-68d53499ed71
FT/ Brussels focuses on UK’s €60bn exit bill before trade talks ]]

For posters without a subscription:

Divorce-first approach a setback for Britain’s hopes of fast-track deal

The EU’s Brexit negotiators expect to spend until Christmas solely discussing Britain’s divorce from the bloc, denying London any trade talks until progress is made on a €60bn exit bill and the rights of expatriate citizens. A narrow divorce-first approach favoured by Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, would represent a big setback for Britain’s aim for a fast-track EU trade deal, completed by the end of 2018...

At one extreme some of the EU-27 — including some French officials — want Britain to honour its financial commitments as a first step. Others are concerned a hardline money-first approach will fail unless the “sweetener” of trade discussions is offered to keep the UK engaged. Spain, for instance, opposes “strict procedural requirements” and has backed early discussions about the future relationship....

The UK will want interim arrangements to be fixed as soon as possible in the separation talks, to dissuade footloose companies from quitting the UK,” he wrote in a CER paper released on Monday. “But the EU may well exploit this British requirement by demanding concessions in other parts of the negotiation.”For the EU-27 “it would not make sense to talk of a transition without knowing the outlines of the future FTA,” he added. “Yet there will not be time to grapple with the [free-trade agreement], they say, until difficult Article 50 issues are sorted out.”

This Guardian article was also interesting:

Divide and rule tactics could leave UK without deal, say EU politicians

Britain accused of trying to ‘move the goalposts and do away with the referee' in Brexit negotiations.

British attempts to “blackmail and divide” EU countries in the run-up to Brexit negotiations will lead to a disastrous “crash-landing” out of the bloc, European politicians have told the Guardian.

They add that the approach being pursued by Theresa May’s government will leave the UK without a free trade deal – with perilous consequences for the country.

At the root of the anger is the belief that Britain does not appreciate that the EU27 nations also have red lines...

If you split up Europe into different interests it will not be easy to get unanimity at the European council.”

Have this been covered?

Daily, since before June 23rd. But 52% of the UK wasn't listening.

Nothing in that story should be any surprise to anyone who voted remain.

True.

Both stories are essentially about tactics and things don't seem to be going that well...

Both stories are essentially about tactics and things don't seem to be going that well.

You have to be a bit dim to think that one against 27 - or 64,0000 vs. 443,000,000 is ever going to end well for the one.

But...German car makers...

But...German car makers...

What about them ?

You must have come across it, lurking - it's the refrain we've heard since before the vote whenever it is pointed out that our leverage against the 27 is not going to be good.

How so? Misti's options 1 and 2 don't amount to Brexit for me. My soft version would be outside single market and customs union but with preferential trade agreement with the EU thus allowing UK to negotiate trade arrangements with non-EU countries. End FoM but still have fairly lax rules on FoM for work and study.

Not possible in the A50 timescale. What semi says makes more sense (given a decade or two).

Also, if you want a trade deal that is compatible with WTO/GATT it has to cover quite broad areas of trade (you cant cherry pick: not legal). And that deal will be subject to a supranational dispute settlement body, which you will probably like less than the ECJ ;)

You must have come across it, lurking - it's the refrain we've heard since before the vote whenever it is pointed out that our leverage against the 27 is not going to be good.

I refer you to my previous comment about being a bit dim .

Or just prone to wishful/magical thinking.

And that deal will be subject to a supranational dispute settlement body, which you will probably like less than the ECJ ;)

We're the UK and we will do what we bloody well want to, without some Johnny Foreigner sticking their nose into our business.

Now that may seem slightly over the top in this thread. However I suspect it is a very real attitude and sentiment in the country. Certainly if the chatter I've heard in water-cooler talks is anything to go by.

I hope I stay alive long enough to see how Brexiteers explain that - having dumped the ECJ - the UK is now answerable to the WTO, and GATT. Especially as you can be sure that if the UK even misinterprets a comma in the agreement someone the French will insist on taking us through the courts.

Anyone watching "Roots" (the 2016 version on BBC) ? There's a scene set in 1783 where all the Americans are celebrating becoming "free men", to the raised eyebrows of their slaves.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss

Or just prone to wishful/magical thinking.

I refer you to my previous previous comment about being a bit dim .

Place marking. Bigly. (sorry, too much time on Trump threads...)

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/20/divide-and-rule-tactics-could-leave-uk-without-deal-say-eu-politicians

So TM is clearly going for a divide and rule strategy.
I'm wondering if she has thought this out. Has she realised she will the unanimity to get a deal? And that annoying the countries that are the most pro Europe by trying to go behind the EU negotiator back isn't going to help doing that?

I'm all about the unicorns misti. DC tried negotiating with a realistic proposition and that didn't go so well.

A reformed EU such as semi and Alan Johnson et al outline would just about work for me too but I believe that is even less plausible.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/oxford-university-reject-post-brexit-eu-campus-paris-france-europe-funding-a7590021.html

Going to Oxford in Paris ....
Anyone coming with me? Nice training and some lovely croissants.

I bring even better Brexit news, let us all rejoice! We will have the departure of experts, elites and Remoaners to celebrate!

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/02/19/exclusive-oxford-university-set-break-700-years-tradition-open/

Ooh cross-post, RedandYellow

Brexit = exporting jam and biscuits.

Today Theresa May announced a brand new policy. Brexit strategy also involves exporting Union Jack Mugs made in Stoke. The cabinet all have one. Cost £19.99.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-visits-posh-mugs-election-9855481#ICID=sharebar_twitter

Rocking!

Lets ignore the NHS again. See Mugs!

To be honest? I am as pro Remain as you can get.
I don't believe that we will get a decent agreement t with the EU.
I'm not even sure we will get a transition period, as that would need to be agreed by all state members.

I think the Guardian article has nailed well. The press is going on and on about Brexit being Brexit and that only hard Brexit that will do that people here have lost sight of what a négociation is. And that we will not get unicorns.
They've also lost sight that the EU itself has some quite strong red lines in their negociations and that they are unlikely to move from them.

Historically the UK has been very good at negociations and getting what they want. It might be the time when it will realise that the uk is NOT the great nation with a huge empire anymore and that the power isn't balanced in its favour anymore.

The wake up call will be hard IMO for a lot of people who think the EU will bow to their requests.
It will also be very hard to wake up with WTO only and no FTA. Few countries will be happy to go against the EU and their FTA to please the uk.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/02/one-day-without-us-reveals-spectre-britain-without-immigration

The Tate, for instance, is offering free tours showing visitors artworks created or influenced by migrants, showing Londoners which of the paintings that they’ve seen a dozen times only exist because of immigration

Meanwhile
@danbloom1
Theresa May lording it over the Lords, from the foot of an enormous gold throne

Throne jokes anyone?