Westministenders: Boris and The By-Elections

[RedToothBrush]

You lot post too fast!

A50 has made it out of the Commons without any amends. Its on its way to the Lords, but this week is half term, so in theory not much going on (in the UK at least). It hit the Lords on the 20th where it might not get such an easy ride. The Lords will not (and CAN NOT) stop brexit or frustrate it. But the numbers are in perhaps more favour of amendments if they choose to go that way, than the Commons. This would throw the bill back to the Commons. This is pretty reasonable.

In the meantime its 12 days to go until the Copeland and Stoke Central By-Elections.

Leave.Eu think UKIP have Stoke in the bag. They think there will be a 33% turnout. I think a turnout that high is the land of fantasy. Paul Nuttalls who was at Hillsborough is now a devout Stokie who has lived there all his life. Except of course he isn't.

Copeland looks like it will go Conservative. Its theirs to throw away. It would be the first victory for a sitting government in a by-election since 1983 if they make it. They intend to use a victory as another argument for a 'mandate'. But have they managed to drop a nuclear booboo?

One more Question. What are the chances of this thread making it to the 23rd?!

I could get behind that Misti

I only got around to reading the (sycophantic) article about Theresa May by the editor of the New Statesman last night - which I thought was a relatively left wing paper.

The arrogance behind this statement struck me forcibly:
And she knew what she wanted from Brexit and that it would require Britain leaving the single market and ending freedom of movement. It was just that people refused to listen to what she was saying, or did not read her speeches attentively enough.

So she seems to think she has some sort of Divine right to rule, does she? Does she not remember that she holds an elective office? If the people refuse to listen, perhaps she should both explain better and listen to people herself. As for not reading her speeches attentively - how much can be read into 'Let me be clear,' repeated at least seven times in any speech.

As for wanting more state intervention - I have yet to see anything - no policy on housing, social care, only grammar schools for education, when a shortage of places and lack of funding are crucial issues. When asked about poor transport links in the Copeland constituency, her answer was Labour did nothing when they were in power i.e. 'We are crap, but so were Labour'.

I could also get behind your Competent Brexit, misti.

As for calling 16 million people losers - it rather beggars belief. If you want it to be a success language like that needs to be cut out and sharpish. Nor does making a statement that 65 million people are behind you, because they most definitely are not.

Yes, I could get behind that plan too.

Exactly misti.

It harks back to the point I made on the last thread. Target the middle to moderate leavers, which probably would include acknowledging potential issues and dropping others, and you'll bring over the don't knows and moderate remainers too.

Apparently it is too much to ask for a cogent plan and risk assessment. You need to believe in the brexit concept that has no downsides ala elements posts

Sadly, even if people like Civil Servants do wish to co-operate, May's team soon has them squeezed out.

I do feel angry, because if it goes badly for us, those right wingers will smartly do a Cameron and run, leaving everyone else to pick up the pieces.

Tbh I think that seeing the situation atm, anyone would back something that is though out compare to what TM is proposing.

Posted too soon - look at May's behaviour in Malta - off she went schmoozing with Trump and then blithely assumed that she could be an intermediary with the 27. Only to get short shrift. Which shows just how unaware she is, and won't listen to people who could advise her.

Target the middle to moderate leavers

You have to know where they are, and how to reach them. They are conspicuous by their absence in public discourse, which sees people like Christopher Booker ( Christopher Booker ffs!) branded as a "remoaner" for daring to suggest that leaving the EU, SM and CU simultaneously will lead to disaster. Perhaps there are shy leavers who have their doubts, but where are they? Who is speaking for them? They will (probably) not listen to remainers, and with few exceptions, the public discourse from the leave camp makes out that doubter=traitor. The lone voices like Richard North speak to a very small, specialised and educated crowd. Your average Daily Mail or MN Brexit supporter never reads their material, and most wouldn't understand it if they did.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/jean-claude-juncker-brexit-negotiations-reelection-a7575466.html

This, for me, is very worrying.
Reading eaten the lines, what I understand is that TM would have no issue at all in going head first trying to destroy the EU to get what she wants.
Now, you can pro or against the EU but destroying the EU, something that has given quite a lot of positive incl to the UK, on purpose just to get your own way?
I do hope I am reading wrong because I would be very uneasy about that sort of tactics.

Yes. I had assumed that assuring the rights of EU citizens in Britain and securing a transitional deal would be absolute priorities, as not to do so would be inhumane and suicidal respectively. Then the conference happened

The flaw in the plan to target the middling to moderate leavers is of course that should have been the plan from the outset. Those who have been brace enough to say 'this isn't what I wanted' on social media at least have been branded traitors etc too so months down the line damage limitation is too little too late

To enact it now probably needs some sort of way to express your thoughts without fear of being called traitor etc. Maybe TMs advertising agency could suggest something

Yes, I think Theresa May would do anything to get her own way, and if she doesn't get it, she wants revenge.

Who is speaking for the moderate Leavers? Well, it's up to the moderate Leavers to start complaining to the BBC for a starter to stop Farage appearing just about every week on some politics programme or other, and then identify their own spokesperson. Remainers can't do it for them.

TM doesn't listen to anyone
So hopefully the Tories will stab her in the back before long...
I also agree that the people pushing through this train wreck will just fuck off (like Cameron) and leave the rest of us to it
Trumps visit...well, I'm delighted. I love train travel and am planning what my placard will say as we speak 😀

Never feels to early for a drink when I read these threads. Thanks red

Never feels too early for a drink when I read these threads. Thanks red

I think shy leavers who regret their vote are now too cowed the whole "traitor" label that is being thrown about
Also- wtf is happening about the Surrey council sweetheart deal? No news on THAT is there?

Jesus, has anyone seen the stuff about Bercow? Insulting the President was close to the line, apparently, but having voted Remain makes him unfit for office?

What country are we living in?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/11/john-bercow-new-brexit-furore-neutrality-admitting-voted-remain/

One I no longer recognise Cecile 😞😡

Umm, Theresa May voted Remain. Is she fit for office?

The Bercow stuff is nuts. He's stated when asked what he did after the vote in a vague way. Maybe he shouldn't have but plenty of others in political neutral posts did pre ref and didn't lose their roles. He didn't say 'I think the Tory party have turned into a bunch of lunatics' which I could understand being against the rules. Other than stating what he did about Trump, which I believe comes under his remit wrt duties to the house itself, no one bothered until now.

Well TM says she voted remain.

Maybe we should start a campaign.
TM unfit for office as she is a traitor to have voted Remain (and backed the Remain campaign at the time of the election).
Do you think that would work??