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Brexit

Westministenders: Boris and his friends hand in their homework to be marked.

990 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2017 14:10

The last week has been depressing for a lot of people.

Even if you are happy about the vote in the Commons, there is a worrying lack of backbone in MPs of all shades.

Then there’s what is going on in the USA which I’m going to quietly ignore in this post except to say that cosying up to Trump still could backfire on all who do for numerous reasons.

It seems like its all over in someways, but there is still plenty going on.

The A50 Bill has only passed stage one. The Government’s deliberate publishing of the White Paper after the vote has left a lot of people with egg all over their face.

Plus its just crap. Actually its not crap. It’s a dog dinner of farcical proportions with no content, faulty data and incorrect details that an A-Level Student did the night before their assignment was due, masquerading as an official government document.

Now its amendment time, which is the serious bit. For an amendment to make it, it will need cross party support. After the government failed to produce a White Paper worth the paper it was written on, and insulted the intelligence of the House of Commons, that could get interesting.

For starters the White Paper says that EU citizens are one of our best bargaining chips. Trouble is a lot of Tory and Labour MPs don’t agree.

In short there is a fair old chance of a government defeat next week at some point. The government don’t want any. Especially not this early. I really think it will be very difficult for the government to provide the assurance MPs will want, even if they crack the whip. They have lost the trust of too many. In voting for the first vote, many MPs will feel they have shown their intent to support leaving and now will get busy on trying to hammer down the details.

Highlights include of the White Paper include the idea that we will still be subject to the ECJ except we won’t. This is ridiculous. We will be subject to ECJ rulings but not be subject to ECJ rulings directly. Eh? What? (Not that we didn’t see this coming). There’s Euroatom and the government doing an impression of Homer Simpson. With a by-election in Copeland on the cards. That story has some time to keep running. As Steve Peers points out, the Leprechauns are going to sort out Northern Ireland for us which is a great political strategy to employ.

Its full of lots of other utter bollocks but those particular points are the ones that are potentially the most problematic for the government. If you don’t think the White Paper screams we are going to get eaten alive by the EU and Trump, you need to get off the hallucinogenics pronto.

If that isn’t awe inspiring enough we also have:

The wonderful mental image of Paul Nuttall kipping on a mattress in a house in Stoke disparately pretending to be a Stokie, nervously hoping that letterbox rattling in the wind isn’t C4 letterbox again and that the coppers don’t pay him a visit in the near future. I confess that whilst my imagination has been kept busy with this, I am disappointed in the lack of video clips of him munching on an Oatcake in a Stoke City shirt, sitting on an Armitage Shanks throne, turning his plate over whilst listening to Robbie Williams and with a Titanic by his side. All at the same time. I think he’s missed a few tricks.

AND

Diane Abbott doing quite possibly even more damage to Labour than them merely rolling over and dying over a50 by pulling a sickie. Her ‘Brexit Flu’ damages the party’s image and Corbyn himself even more. If that’s even possible. Some Labour MPs have demanded an apology.

Labour is starting to look like it’s a ship with rats fleeing this week. MPs have defied a three line whip and quite the Shadow Cabinet (Again). Rumours are that over 7000 members have left. A councillor has defected to the Lib Dems. There was a council by election in Rotherham where Lab lost a seat to the LDs in an area where there has never been as many people vote LD. Nor were there as many remain voters as LD voters. The Parliamentary vote for Unite’s new leader has unsurprisingly selected the anti-Corbyn candidate Gerald Coyne over Len McCluskey. The bookies have dropped the odds on Corbyn leaving Labour before a GE from 6/1 to 2/1 overnight. Oh and Red Ed is being rumoured to be returning to the front bench…

OP posts:
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Peregrina · 05/02/2017 21:39

I bet TM couldn't run a nuclear power plant any more than a nuclear scientist could run the country.

Indeed she couldn't, so what on earth was she doing dragging Euratom into her vague plans of withdrawing from the EU? Why in heaven's name didn't she have the wit to ask the senior management of the industry for their opinions?

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 21:40

And Peregrina if from your post of GCSE history you're arguing that we are heading towards a version of a Nazi state, the 36% rise in anti semitic attacks in the UK in 2016 would be testimony to that. And world wide.
And racist attacks in general.
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/02/reports-of-antisemitic-incidents-increase-to-record-levels-in-uk
We normalise this at our peril.

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HashiAsLarry · 05/02/2017 21:41

We have 2 years to sort that stuff out.
Ah, so the plan is to wing it and hope for the best. At least we know for definite now Hmm

Can any of the very intelligent remainers on this thread explain why the EU would give us a good if they knew a referendum was on the table at the end to keep us in the EU?
Because, as has already been pointed out this already happens with other member states. Plus other member states are also likely to hold referenda on the exit deal too.

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RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 05/02/2017 21:42

Oh thank god hashi thank you

Oooh puppy *bored what type of puppy

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Peregrina · 05/02/2017 21:42

Absolutely woman that is exactly my fear.

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boredofbrexit · 05/02/2017 21:45

This type of puppySmile

Westministenders: Boris and his friends hand in their homework to be marked.
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RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 05/02/2017 21:47

Oh my actual god!!

Thats adorable

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boredofbrexit · 05/02/2017 21:48

Thank you!

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TheElementsSong · 05/02/2017 21:49

Squeeee!

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NotDavidTennant · 05/02/2017 21:49

Can any of the very intelligent remainers on this thread explain why the EU would give us a good if they knew a referendum was on the table at the end to keep us in the EU?

It would be quite risky to give us a bad deal in the hope that British voters voted it down. What if the voters voted to leave anyway? Then the UK and the EU would both be stuck with a deal they didn't want.

Not saying that they definitely wouldn't be willing to take that risk, but I'm not convinced that it's the 'given' that it's made out to be.

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 21:56

There's a great bit of recent footage on FB of subway train on which anti semitic graffiti is scrawled and the carriage join in to wipe it all off.

It's why I posted that story earlier about the lady who is now in a detention centre in Lanarkshire. 27 years here, grand child, children and carer for her husband. Because she returned home, non EU, to care for failing parents she lost her residency status, she was detained after turning up for a meeting at a residency centre.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38852020

It's gratuitous cruelty and it's being repeated all over the country. What's the difference between this system and what was in Germany? Just industrial carnage. It's the same cruelty, with the bedroom tax, the miners, the treatment of disabled, etc etc. The populace has been bullied and has now been conditioned to direct their venom on chosen victims. Classic totalitarian behaviour. And it's been noticed and I'm sure that's why the lib dems are getting these very unusual wins. Sunderland Shock

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 22:02

It's embarrassing that Americans are standing up so nobly for Muslims, when the silence round racist and sexist government policy and unchallenged illegal racism, is deafening in Britain This includes the Labour party, but this racism is particularly encouraged, as Ken Clarke said, in the conservative party. It is shameful.

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HashiAsLarry · 05/02/2017 22:02

Pure cuteness bored

woman I had a friend go through similar recently, though thankfully without the detention centre. She'd been here 15 years, worked through all of them, had a job here waiting for her too. She was successful in her case, but it was hairy for a while.

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HesterThrale · 05/02/2017 22:03

Jamie your question suggests that the EU would want to offer a deal to keep us. I think at some point they may just not be interested in us any more. Too high maintenance.

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Peregrina · 05/02/2017 22:04

woman your examples are exactly why I feel afraid for the way the country is going. The Germans in the 1920s and 30s had something of an excuse in that they didn't know what was happening. It's not an excuse we can use because we know exactly where such actions can lead.

However, some Germans were speaking out in the late 20s and 30s, so it can be said only to be a partial excuse. You example of the woman now being held in the detention centre is an example of the mindless 'I am only following orders' mentality. That excuse didn't wash last time, and it won't wash next time.

Still, it's heartening to see people taking action against racist anti-semitic graffiti. It shows that there are plenty of decent people out there still.

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 22:10

And despite the great fuckuppery Britain has caused in Europe, from what other EU posters are saying non of this mean spirited brutality is being visited on British residents in other countries.
I remember a Polish Government spokesperson, saying something to the effect, we remember what we did for you in the war and the way Polish people are being treated right now in Britain will not be forgotten.

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 22:16

Hashi what does an experience like that do to your trust of a country and people who would do that? Hope she's settled now.

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prettybird · 05/02/2017 22:16

We have 2 years to sort that stuff out.

The fact that it took Greenland more than 2 years to leave (with only a few hundred thousand citizens to deal with and not many EU immigrants/emigrants, one major industry and 15? EU members ) shows just how realistic this timescale is Hmm

I do love how people base their optimism on sticking their heads in the sand ignorance.

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FlissMumsnet · 05/02/2017 22:18

Forgive the intrusion but just wanted to make a plea for peace and love. This thread is interesting and wide-ranging and we'd hate to see it full of holes due to deleted posts.

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Lico · 05/02/2017 22:21

Usually: I was making the point that France is really elitist.

You just need to look at acandudate's education and you will have a very good guess of the winner.
Woman: part of the Grandes Ecoles. The article below explains it very well. It is all about the Elite schools.

www.economist.com/node/21549976

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 22:25

cheers Lico

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HashiAsLarry · 05/02/2017 22:25

woman It left me with little illusions as to the sort of person Theresa May is, lets put it that way. More recently I worry that my own dual nationality may come to bite me in the butt and where that leaves my DC.

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 22:38

HashiAsLarry Hope it all works out for you Flowers, I think there are way more than 3 million people in this country in the appalling position of worrying about their heritage and residency rights. It is inhumane.

On the dangers of normalising totalitarian leaders, and how the Munich Press tried to expose Hitler.
lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-munich-post/

If the Daily Mail had not been terrorising the populace and demonising 'foreigners' for decades, would we have been where we are now?
And the fact that these threads are my news source and a lot of people's says a lot about mainstream media in Britain.

And on totalitarian leaders, May is refusing to allow parliament to vote on the deal. She is subverting democratic rule, and wants it's gone............

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woman12345 · 05/02/2017 22:43

once it's gone! Blush

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Lico · 05/02/2017 22:44

Woman.

Michel Barnier: ESCP Grande Ecole.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESCP_Europe

Good luck to David Davies, Johnson and Fox and May.. These guys are tops in maths ...

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