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Brexit

Westministenders: Ding Ding Ding! All Aboard! Boris’s Brexit Bus gets going.

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 14:08

The Judges have Ruled.

They have restored parliamentary sovereignty to the people from the crown. Hard line Brexiteers don’t like it. This is how democracy looks though. Everyone gets a say, even people who you don’t agree with. Bloody Bremoaners. If irony wasn’t dead on 24th June, it was hung drawn and quartered on 24th Jan. I hope in time Gina Miller will get the recognition she deserves in history.

What does it actually mean for Brexit though? Can Brexit be thwarted by the decision?

Short Answer: No Brexit can not be stopped. The ‘Will of the People’ will be respected ultimately. (Though also worth stating the ‘Will of the People’ is not a fixed thing. The 23rd June vote was a mere snapshot of a moment in time. The Will of the People is ever changing and this should never be forgotten).

A majority of MPs have pledged to vote for a50. Whether the LDs, Greens, Labour Remainers and SNP oppose Brexit is ultimately irrelevant. Talks of ‘frustrating Brexit’ is nothing more than hot air from people frustrated they are not getting everything on their terms alone.

Why is the ruling important though? What next? What you should look out for? (Trying to keep this as brief as possible on immediate effect)

  1. There is no reason (at this point) to suggest that May will miss her March 31st deadline.

  2. The European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill is scheduled to go through the HoC between Jan 31 and Feb 8. Two days of debate will be in the HoC on Tuesday (with parliament sitting until midnight) and Wednesday with the key vote on Wednesday. The following week on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday will go to the committee and report stages and for the third reading (See this FT article Brexit bill likely to face biggest trials in House of Lords for details of what happens at what stage). That makes 5 days total and is significantly less than other important European decisions. It is being viewed as an attempt to gag parliament by many.

  3. The opposition normally agree to common’s timetabling before making such announcements. Several Labour and Conservative MPs are calling for Labour to vote against the timetable. It is not clear normal procedure has been followed, on this occasion, however Corbyn has imposed a three line whip on it after a heated shadow Cabinet meeting. This seems to suggest Labour whips agreed timetable. A large scale rebellion and (more) shadow cabinet resignations could well be on the cards.

  4. Lords could yet, get more time to debate the bill than Commons, due to government not setting debating time. That alone would be something of a scandal.

  5. The government have conceded over the publication of a white paper and say it now will happen, however rumours are that the government are trying to delay its publication until AFTER the a50 debate has finished. This makes the whole thing a farce. Its not obvious what Tory Rebels will do under the circumstances. It is theoretically possible there may be enough for a government defeat, but that is a now an extreme possibility with Corbyn imposing a three line whip. (That in itself might embolden a few Tories though).

  6. When MPs voted to support a50 in December this only passed due to an amendment requiring the government to produce a plan. Always worth remembering this important caveat. It will be omitted by a lot of media coming media coverage if MPs support any amendments or seek to obstruct a vote due to a lack of detail as a ‘betrayal’. It is not. It is a consistent request and a necessary part of scrutiny.

  7. The Brexit Select Committee which is supposed to scrutinise the government just got more important. Its recommendations carry weight and will influence the decisions that MPs make.

  8. Amendments to a50 law will be crucial. The SNP have suggested they want FIFTY. Most will just be rubbish, but they hopefully would have at least generate proper debate. This could be a worthwhile process regardless of how it might be framed, however the timetable makes that difficult if not impossible to do. Rather than frustrating things it could have been part of a positive process to help build consensus and tackle certain concerns.

  9. Labour has been handed a chance to get out of the government blaming them for a bad deal. It gives them a chance to hold the government more accountable and get their teeth into things. It is their chance to throw away. They need to stand up and not roll over. Corbyn's Three Line Whip is exactly that. Now is the time to pester MPs over amendments. (Equally applies to Leavers concerned about Tory Brexit).

  10. Chuka Umunna has suggested an amendment to give £350 million to the NHS. It would be an opportunity to draw some much needed battle lines about the future of the NHS and a chance to make ground to protect it which would be an important position for Labour. I don’t see it happening, but you can hope.

  11. The danger for Labour is to join SNP in a ‘road block’ of amendments. They will need to be selective in their approach.

  12. What Rebel Tories do next is important. These are both Leavers and Remainers and this should not be forgotten. It gives them a lot more power.

  13. The Supreme Court ruled against the devolved assemblies. This has two effects. It might heighten the temptation and support for Independence. It might also force nationalists to work with their English peers where there is common ground. Thus unifying opposition in the United Kingdom.

  14. The legal position is now established as the GFA only refers to NI’s place in the UK, not the EU. This leaves the door open for NI to choose Ireland and the EU. Similar rejection of the Sewell convention having legal effect, makes the case for a new Scottish Independence bid.

  15. How 10) and 11) are handled is crucial to the country’s future. May needs to be more sensitive. Whilst there is no appetite for independence / reunification at present this may yet change as a result of Brexit. It does not necessarily weaken the nationalist’s hands in the long run. Amendments relating to assurance around devolution could still be a sticking point if other parties support. (I think fair chance they will in order to try and prevent break up of the UK. England & Wales dominated by Conservatives forever otherwise). It also put DUP in interesting position.

  16. May is doing more shit stirring in NI saying the IRA needs to be investigated more and suggesting soldiers were ‘persecuted’. This is inflammatory stuff. If she carries on, don’t expect the GFA to last. At this point, I might be tempted to say, that she wants it to break so she can enforce Brexit and remove the Human Rights Act.

  17. The issue of a50 reversibility has not gone away. The positions of the Labour Party and the Lib Dems would be vastly strengthened by reversibility. This is not to stop Brexit as such, but because it strengthens their demands to get a deal that they think is in the best interests of the UK because it would be potentially easier to reject a Tory Brexit. The legal case to try and get an ECJ referral is ongoing in Ireland and is important.

  18. The possibility of a second referendum, has also not gone away gone away. If EU states have to agree to a deal and some put it to their citizens, that makes it more politically difficult for it not to be put to the British.

  19. There is still a strong chance of more legal challenges to Brexit. There are lots of unresolved issues relating to rights which the Supreme Court did not resolve through the a50 challenge. This is for government to decide upon – and if it does not address those issues, then individuals will have no alternative to go through the courts to seek clarity on their positions. Most notably is positions of British Citizens abroad and EU citizen married or with children in UK.

  20. Government has made a notable backtracking about the role of the rule of law and the authority of the courts. This is progress and perhaps an acknowledgement of how they handled it so poorly in December and how they can not act unopposed.

  21. May’s speech last week was protective against this, so she can make the political point that she tried. She has in some ways protected herself against a Kipper backlash by actually proving it was not possible to carry out some of their proposals. This might actually be good in the long run for fighting the far right in the UK.

  22. The Government Appeal was effectively totally unnecessary. Expect a FOI request to give someone a stick to beat the government with.

  23. Don’t forget the Lords. They ultimately won’t oppose a50. It threatens their existence and would provoke a constitutional crisis which most will seek to prevent. Their job is to act in the national interest, to act for the best interests of the people, to uphold democracy and our constitutional framework. That means they can not ultimately block a50. They might insist on amendments though, especially if the Commons don’t do their job properly.

  24. The Stoke and Copeland By-Elections are unlikely to be too affected by the ruling at this stage – as it is unchanged from Dec This might change though. If a50 going through parliament has been concluded by 23rd Feb, Remainers are most likely to be unhappy. If a50 bill looks like it is being ‘road blocked’ Leavers might get more enraged and motivated to turnout.

  25. None of this means that Hard Brexit won’t happen. The EU still has the upper hand here. The deal we are seeking might not be possible. It does however mean that parliament rather than the government should have a more active role in proceedings.

  26. Final point is that the ruling gives a chance of consensus in the National Interest and not just that of Hardline Leavers. The wording of the bill, perhaps doesn't. It looks like May’s Tory First Policy, is still full steam ahead. I thought it would change the tone of debate as the government would be forced to change tact. Its not looking likely.

Next stop on the Brexit –Aeroplane-- Bus; Trump's America.

That’s sure to be guaranteed torture to witness.

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RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 16:38

www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/01/26/the-state-departments-entire-senior-management-team-just-resigned/?utm_term=.3a01f5f4a1bc
The State Department’s entire senior management team just resigned

Imagine if the entire Foreign Office Staff quit and left Johnson to it.

Well that just happened in the US.

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RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 16:41

Correct it and send it back woman. After all they are the party who are oh so keen that all residents of the UK should have a proper grasp of the English language! I'm sure he'll thank you for helping him personally achieve this aim

I don't know if you are British by birth or not woman12345. If you are not, do you have a friend who is an EU citizen who could do this on your behalf because they were so appalled when you shared your response and you felt compelled to return it back to the MEP in disgust.

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woman12345 · 26/01/2017 16:41

Radio 4's "From our Own Correspeondent".
Interesting item, following on from bigchoc's Cambridge Analytica article, about how fake news and data harvesting being used to aid AFD.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08bb9dc

MitzyLeFrouf · 26/01/2017 16:41
Shock
MitzyLeFrouf · 26/01/2017 16:42

My shock was at the State Department mass resignation.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2017 16:43

If Nuttall wins, would Arron Banks be pleased or irritated ? - since he wants to set up a party to replace UKIP.

woman12345 · 26/01/2017 16:44

Just feels a bit dirty and unsafe being in contact with them! No massive SPAG crimes, just ineloquent and bombastic.
Who else dares to contact their local UKIPs!
It wasn't even from the MEP himself just his male PA.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2017 16:45

Shock x 100 !

woman12345 · 26/01/2017 16:48

The State Department’s entire senior management team just resigned Shock too
Wish our the civil servants have the integrity to do the same.
What's working over there could work over here.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2017 16:48

On reflection, anyone sane & sufficiently solvent would quit to avoid working under Trump
The Boss From Hell
Still Shock
and worried who'll replace them

MitzyLeFrouf · 26/01/2017 16:49

Trump hasn't even been in office for a full week and already it feels as though America is unravelling.

lalalonglegs · 26/01/2017 16:50

Just when I thought I was becoming unshockable Shock Shock Shock and a small amount of Grin

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 16:50

Sky News Newsdesk ‏*@SkyNewsBreak*
White House says President Trump will hold a news conference with Theresa May tomorrow

Whhhoooppppiiieeeeeee!

May of course is a big fan of press conferences too.

What could possibly go wrong?

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woman12345 · 26/01/2017 16:50

He's declared war on America.

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 16:55

Corbyn gives a lesson in how to loss a By-Election

Daniel Hewitt ‏*@DanielHewittITV*
NEW: Jeremy Corbyn refuses to support the building of a new nuclear power plant at Moorside in Copeland, which would create 21,000 jobs.

Local candidate supports it. Which Corbyn states in interview attached to tweet. He then is pushed and he refuses to say he supports.

twitter.com/DanielHewittITV/status/824644168354041856 Clip on link.

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Peregrina · 26/01/2017 16:55

Thanks again Red.

Re some of your points:
6) May will say that her 12 points the other day were a plan. I only hope she doesn't plan her private life around such woolly plans. E.g. Come to dinner - no time, no place, nothing specified. Six months later - No one comes to my dinner parties, stamps foot in anger, I gave them a clear invite.
10) Very good to tie this to the Brexit bill. If we are told that the NHS is to do with Brexit, then it must be asked as why Gove as a then Minister and Johnson as one now made this claim in the official Leave Campaign.

Worst ever Party Leader will be for history to judge. Cameron will be on the list certainly, as the man who wanted to be PM because he thought he would be good at it. May might easily join the list; but she's not gone yet and this is best judged in retrospect.

BestIsWest · 26/01/2017 16:58

Thanks for the new thread Red.

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 17:05

woman12345, just think you are making them do some work. Seeing as we are paying for them and they probably have bugger all to do for precisely the reason you give, trolling them seems almost a public service. Besides they already have your contact details now.

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BigChocFrenzy · 26/01/2017 17:08

Unprecedented unpopularity for a President just elected

Voters normally rally round by the time of the inauguration, so the new POTUS starts off very popular and with plenty of goodwill

BUT Fox News, which is conservative pro-Trump, has ratings:

. Trump’s favorable 42 % vs unfavorable 55%. So net 13% negative
. By comparison, Fox had Obama at 76 vs 15 % just after his 2009 inauguration.
(even the losing George W was 58 vs 31 %)

http://thehill.com/opinion/opinion/315953-moulitsas-reality-of-not-being-popular

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 17:12

www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trumps-flashy-executive-actions-could-run-aground-234200
Trump’s flashy executive actions could run aground
The White House failed to consult with many of the agencies and lawmakers who will be critical for their success.

But the process is playing out chaotically both inside the White House and throughout the federal government.

Inside the West Wing, it is almost impossible for some aides to know what is in the executive orders, staffers say. They have been written by Stephen Miller, Trump’s senior White House adviser for policy, and Steve Bannon, Trump’s chief strategist, according to people familiar with the matter. Ideas for some of the Trump executive orders came from transition officials and so-called “landing teams,” sources say, who weren’t working in the White House.

Aides have also said that it was sometimes a game-time decision if Trump was going to sign a certain executive order that day.

Bannon writes the Executive Orders Shocker.

If the US do manage somehow to get rid of Trump, what happens to Bannon?

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RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 17:14

Day 6 of Trump.

Trump says if Mexico refuse to pay for the wall, Mexico's President should cancel his planned visit.

Guess what just happened.

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woman12345 · 26/01/2017 17:20

Besides they already have your contact details now. Yikes,
Better get plan B activated!
I'll do it if you and la la do it! Grin

RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 17:25

I'm also 'compromised' too, so don't worry!

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RedToothBrush · 26/01/2017 17:28

Shadow Minister Tulip Siddiq has just resigned the front bench saying she does not represent Westminster in her constituency, she represents her constituency in Westminster.

Shall we start a sweep stake on how many more go?

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woman12345 · 26/01/2017 17:30

ha ha, thanks red
Sanctuary city mayors united ( hello Sadiq and Marvin Rees)
www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/25/bay-area-mayors-activists-denounce-trumps-push-to-defund-sanctuary-cities/
Modest concern to DT but his hotels are getting fucked over too Grin
phone lines down apparently.

We need to be doing this to Brexit funders.
We can't rely on Labour to do this.
Americans are brave.

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