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Brexit

Westministers: Boris and May give us the Brexit Leeming Plan.

995 replies

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 15:17

Theresa May has made a speech.

It’s a wish list for hard core Brexiteers. It’s a large corporate executive’s wet dream for exploitation.

Even requests for a white paper as recommended by the Brexit Committee have been ignored. Thus meaning there is no chance for proper scrutiny. Plus whilst on the one hand parliament have been told they will have a vote on the end deal, this is merely slight of hand, with Davis stating that if parliament vote against this, then we will leave the EU without a deal in a chaotic exit. Thus making the vote an exercise with a gun to parliament's head.

Workers Rights and the Welfare State die with Brexit. Even the precious NHS. Especially the precious NHS once its been stole off to the highest American bidder.

May is being lobbied by her hard right and to save her next she listens only to them. She has no interest in listening to anyone else. The demographic and voting patterns favour her to head this direction. There is nothing to be gained for her personally by doing anything else.

She is already laughing her head off in glee at the collapse of the NI assembly. It plays right to her agenda.

Under the wheels of the bus go the JAMs, under go the disenfranchised who rarely vote but came out in force for the referendum, under go single mothers, under go the disabled, under go those with mental health concerns who struggle with already bureaucratic systems set up to ‘catch them out’, under go the EU immigrants especially those who have families here and may not have equal rights in future, under go British Citizens living abroad who might find themselves without healthcare or pensions, under go our Human Rights and any chance of challenging the state’s authority and interference in our every day lives, under go small business who will drown in red tape, under go Scotland and NI.

Yet this is ‘for the children’ or ‘the grandchildren’. Its spineless and cynical and offers nothing for those currently able to vote but under the age of 40. Won't you think of the children? Its fine if you are already retired and have a nice little pension isn't it?

The National Interest? This is a foreign concept. Probably an EU one.

The Baby Boomers are net beneficiaries of the welfare state. The young are unlikely to have a welfare state in a few years and are already net contributors. They have now been robbed of the choice over their future and in patronising tones effectively told they are irrelevant.

And of course Uncle Donald is a fan. You can almost see his vampire fangs reading to get his teeth into the UK and suck the life blood out of it.

It is a horror show.

Its all about selling Theresa May to the Express and the Mail and they love it. Her speech is to set the scene of how committed she is and to lay the blame at anyone who challenges her. It attacks the EU and paints them as the aggressor who are there to prevent poor little Britain from getting what it wants. If Brexit goes wrong, it was all an anti-British plot. Not a collective self inflicted brain haemorrhage. She's gone full on Farage and out Farages Farage.

This all comes perhaps a week before the Supreme Court Ruling.

Funny timing eh? No not really.

It’s a pre-emptive strike.

What on earth will they say? Will this merely allow May to dismantle our current legal system by gathering support for a General Election Manifesto that outlines its demise? Thus extending the mandate for Brexit even further. Probably.

I fear that the courts may only serve to strengthen May in the long run due to the lack of opposition and a Labour party that is imploding, with dozens of its MPs being rumoured to be looking for employment elsewhere. I fear that without a media able to effectively hold May to account in the face of her media baron supporters.

Our only hope really lies within the Conservative party itself and whether May is able to keep a lid on the various on going power struggles. The only trouble is that one of those challengers is a certain Brutus in the form of Mr Gove. I struggle to work out who would be worse; Gove or May. And of course this only highlights the issue that who else is there with in the Conservatives who isn’t a reptile? Even Arron Banks commentated that during the referendum he found Labour MPs nice people and the Conservatives unpleasant almost to a man. High praise indeed.

Meanwhile in America, NATO is obsolete and so Europe will have to consider an EU Army and Russia is firmly getting its claws in. And yeah, just Donald Trump. That Project Fear thing was just fake scaremongering wasn't it? Right? Right?

sigh

What on earth can possible stop this insanity? Not necessarily stop Brexit, but at least stop the PURE INSANITY.

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Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 22:19

Trade requires a surrender of some sovereignty
Why cant we surrender around the same sovereignty as Canada did?

GhostofFrankGrimes · 17/01/2017 22:20

Which like it or not are like a game of poker.

Brilliant tactic, I'm off to Vegas to spunk the kids college fund on the roulette table. Hmm

politicians couldn't decide

Yes, they could it was just that one David Cameron was so sacred of UKIP (a party with 1 MP) that he wrote the referendum into the Tory manifesto in order to win an election and hold off the kippers.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 22:21

The whole thing is insane because of the way it has been carried out

So its only insane because of how it happened not because of what happened? Not buying it.

Mistigri · 17/01/2017 22:23

Also, why is Theresa on the front page of the Times in a pair of Boden men's pyjamas? Is this a policy statement?

Lico · 17/01/2017 22:24

Has Corbyn made any comments yet?
Next heart attack is on Thursday! Not sure that Trump will stay the full four years.

ElenaGreco123 · 17/01/2017 22:27

Lico Corbyn was on the BBC news, but I felt that he reacted to the Hammond interview in Die Welt about becoming a tax haven.

HashiAsLarry · 17/01/2017 22:27

I think someone somewhere is still trying to wake Corbyn up. I'm sure he'll release a statement around Friday when he's finally watched Confused

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 22:28

I think we reached a critical mass where a majority thought it was getting so bad, anything would be better and it was worth the risk to find out.

I don't think the majority gave the EU much thought at all, until Farage whipped up the hatred of it, and Gove, Johnson and Gisela Stuart jumped onto the bandwagon. Gisela Stuart knew that the £350 million a week for the NHS was hogwash and didn't take account of the rebate. She's gone mighty quiet since.

I don't think people now bother to think much about it - hence these threads get shunted into the EU section on MN.

Much of people's annoyance in the north at least, was being ignored by Westminster. Cameron couldn't say much about that. Osborne had his half hearted attempt at a Northern Powerhouse - but towns clustering around the south Pennines are a long way from Newcastle and Carlisle. Osborn's Tatton constituency is hardly deprived either.

EngTech · 17/01/2017 22:30

Being Devils advocate on this

If those who wish to remain in the EU, head north to Scotland when they get independence.

Those that want to leave, stay put until May 2020 when JC will become PM and he starts negotiations to rejoin the EU.

That way, the Remainers win either way Smile

iwanttobemissmarple · 17/01/2017 22:34

I don't usually comment but I cried today & in June.

I'm so angry my dcs future sold out because of these traitors to the UK. After today I conclude that May is also a traitor - otherwise she would be happy to be accountable rather than 'oh you silly people don't understand complicated negotiations'.

Peregrina · 17/01/2017 22:35

Head north to Scotland - yes.

JC becoming PM? Can't see that happening but who knows? Can't see him wanting to negotiate to rejoin the EU either, being a Lexiter at heart.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 22:37

Why cant we surrender around the same sovereignty as Canada did?

A number of sreasons: the EU might agree it's in their best interests to give us a similar deal and it's not yet ratified and might not yet be.

Canada also has to meet quite a lot of red tape requirements as part of the deal. This in itself is an issue for the UK and makes it a problem. Canada has a current arrangement which lasts until they are ready to move across which they have control over timing on. The UK does not have the luxury of this nor the luxury of time for businesses to comply with the regulation as it stands.

Come the end of two years that's it. We no longer necessarily have access to markets we do now. That's the cliff edge. Businesses can not just have no red tape and go to red tape the next without a period in between with out chaos.

That's what May is proposing is we don't get what we demand.

Personally due to the way we've behaved and how much goodwill we have burned through, I'd just point to the cliff and say jump to the UK if I was in EU. We aren't worth the effort to deal with.

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Peregrina · 17/01/2017 22:40

I see that Obama has commuted Chelsea Manning's sentence, but not for 5 months. Isn't there a chance that Trump will immediately undo this? Assuming he knows who Chelsea Manning is, of course Grin.

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 22:41

Yes, EU citizens come here legally under the said terms of the EU treaties

And when we have left the EU we can control that flow.

We were very well of in the EU with all its faults

I guess thats your opinion, the majority of the electorate disagree.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 22:46

Osborn's Tatton constituency is hardly deprived either.

I think you have to be a millionaire to walk in the local at Alderley Edge.

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woman12345 · 17/01/2017 22:47

mybrainhurtsalot thanks for that, sometimes I wonder if I dreamed it!

Misti I'm not sure when it became electoral received wisdom that labour can win elections by trampling over two thirds of its own voters in its haste to out-kipper Ukip .
In many ways Labour's having a family fight like the tories have been for decades, and it is destroying Labour on Brexit. Old labour, even quite moderate ones like Barbara Castle, were anti EEC as it was. The new trots and momentum seem to think that being anti EU is traditional labour. And you get Yanis Varoufakis and Paul Mason types with pretty nuanced approach to EU and I think a lot of the momentum people support them. It's infantile factionalism when grown ups are needed. And it's now a thankless and potentially dangerous job to be an MP.

Brexit was cause by inequity. If everyone had enough nice food, nice houses and possessions, well run safe hospitals, education and proper paid work with decent conditions, and they weren't having their faces rubbed in the perception and reality that some are getting more than their fair share, I don't think the vote would have gone the way it did. And it's true there are not enough publicly provided services for indigenous citizens so there for sure are not enough for the vast range of citizens from other countries. I see, like a lot of us do, why people voted as they did to leave. Vicious working and living environments have made people vicious, on both sides. It's inevitable that the old dog whistles work. The EU did not cause this inequality, that was our government's job to sort out.

Lico · 17/01/2017 22:54

Looks like Barnier is going to push for the UK to be out by October 2018. .. Has surrounded himself with 30 negotiators.

www.rtbf.be/info/dossier/brexit-or-not-brexit/detail_le-brexit-acheve-pour-octobre-2018-le-negociateur-en-chef-de-l-europe-le-souhaite?id=9473415

Suppermummy02 · 17/01/2017 22:58

Brilliant tactic, I'm off to Vegas to spunk the kids college fund on the roulette table
Roulette is a game of chance, Poker is not.

Has Corbyn made any comments yet
The comment I heard from him was to complain about where TM made the speech, he wasn't interested in the content of it.

I don't think the majority gave the EU much thought at all, until Farage whipped up the hatred of it,
I know lots of brexiteers but none of them that support Farage, so not sure if that comment is right.

RedToothBrush I think you are very glass half empty, you have no actual evidence of your statements but you are entitled to them so hope the doom and gloom makes you feel better.

And with that I am off to bed, good night.

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 23:00

'We aren't worth the effort to deal with'. looks like that's what Barnier thinks too.

RedToothBrush · 17/01/2017 23:00

A fast deal isnt necessarily a good deal for the UK.

DH and I back to discussing leaving UK tonight. The option had been off the table for a while.

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AnnieKenney · 17/01/2017 23:05

This article certainly describes the Leavers I know

woman12345 · 17/01/2017 23:05

Thinking of starting a 'brightest and best' cauliflower and manure import/export set up, anyone else in? PYO obviously.

user1484653592 · 17/01/2017 23:05

DH and I back to discussing leaving UK tonight. The option had been off the table for a while.

exactly the same here. i managed not to think about brexit much over the last 2 months but the world is changing at an enormous speed right now and we are v unsure if we can commit to staying in the country. the future here seems somewhat narrow restricted and... cold iyswim

HashiAsLarry · 17/01/2017 23:06

peregrina absolutely, even with more knowledge around about the EU people still peddle complete bull because they've swallowed the bendy banana crap etc.

The notion of just being able to plonk down in another EU country is a big one - I know a few people who keep returning to the UK because they aren't allowed to stay in the other countries as they aren't self supporting, people cannot understand that its the same here but we don't use our treaty rights or whatever the correct term is for a member state rather than individual. The people involved understand it btw, just not others they talk to. Nor do most realise the EU have already told us that our failure to do this is not a problem for them to solve.

I do genuinely think there were a lot people out there that believed the NHS would get that money or at least more money, no matter how many protestations there are now. I'm sure in a case of NHS v EU the NHS would win hands down.

HashiAsLarry · 17/01/2017 23:10

Oh no red, why can't you just see the unicorns? All you have to do is look really hard at those horses and believe in the horns. It'll all be ok. p.s. It'll be your fault for talking things down when it goes tits up Grin