The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

Although it's slightly less funny when you stop to consider the nature of the abuse. Never great to pile in on someone who is currently receiving a large volume of death threats.

She does not deserve the level of abuse she is getting no one does but it doesn't change the fact that she is an arse, willing to throw away our hard won democratic right to vote for a self serving money driven end. Women and men died for the right to vote, democracy was not given to us we fought hard for it. Moneyed Marseilles have always tried to subvert democracy for their own ends and Gina Miller us simply upholding that not so fine tradition. Nigel didn't deserve to have to employ a bodyguard for his daughters but I don't see you feeling any sympathy there.

Marseilles? Fill in your own word there not sure what my spell check overwrote

No democratic right is being thrown away. Quite the opposite.

What do you think the "self serving money driven end" was?

I genuinely don't understand the 'we voted to leave so anything that prevents that is against our hard won vote' sentiment.

Yes- the vote was to 'leave the EU'

That was it.

Very little about how we leave was even discussed let alone decided.

Why would you want a Tory government to have all the say in how that happens?

How is that 'taking back control' or 'regaining sovereignty'?

Why wouldn't you want it to be debated in parliament?

Regardless of what you think of Gina Miller's motive, why is the government having to come up with an actual plan for leaving such a bad thing?

They were always going to have to come up with a plan.

The details of Brexit were always going to be debated in parliament.

Gina Miller has not caused that to happen - it was always going to happen.

But crucially that was always going to be after A50 has been invoked, not before.

It's all a bit pointless after as we'll be on a countdown then.

Things were already being debated & discussed.
Gina Miller et al did not force debate on Brexit.
Their initial motivation was to overturn the result of the ref.

So you don't think May planned to use RP to invoke article 50? Why do you think they challenged the ruling?

They weren't really mango

The governments aim was to pull the trigger then cross their fingers.

Totally serious question- why would you prefer that as a course of action as opposed to actually having a plan based on balancing the 4 freedoms?

why is it pointless because we are on a count down? Its probably better to have a dead line looming than have discussions drag on, and those 89 MPs using every trick in the book to hold things up and allow them to drag on.

Your implying its going to need more than two years of debate. I disagree. We need a short debate and we need to get on with our negotiating position and get out.
I feel we need to play hard ball with the EU, thats going to be severely undermined if we have to endure endless debates in P.

We might want to play hard ball with the EU but we're sadly lacking in the tools to do that.

The upshot of debating leaving the EU before we invoke A50 might well be that the realisation is that it's economic suicide to do so so we don't- that's what Leavers are afraid of.

It seems they'd rather jump off the cliff and deal with the consequences than seriously investigate the alternative we now have.

No not at all Bear.
No we are not lacking the tools to play hard ball. We have always given the EU far more than they have ever given us.
In every way. Particularly in security, as an example. They really on our intelligence and security services heavily. With the current threat to the EU, Isis being driven out of Syria, and Iraq, the very real threat of thousands of displaced battle hardened fanatics whose only mission in life is to blow us all up, I wouldn't want to piss off the country with perhaps the strongest intelligence and army.

In every way

That's the problem here -arrogant beyond belief.

We offer nothing that can't be attained without us.

The sooner Leavers realise that the better.

The governments aim was to pull the trigger then cross their fingers.

Was it?

Totally serious question- why would you prefer that as a course of action as opposed to actually having a plan based on balancing the 4 freedoms?

I am increasingly of the belief that the best thing to do is leave, but retain access - soft Brexit - that covers the immediate aftermath, we leave (Leavers & Remainers appeased - not the extreme Leave or extreme Remain, but a compromise).

This then gives us time - as long as it may take - to unravel & unpick all the more difficult, intricate stuff.
Over a process of a few years we can then work toward a complete Brexit, without doing a headlong leap.

(Well, that's my most recent thought anyway - always subject to amendment!)

Whilst she absolutely doesn't deserve the abuse and opprobrium she is an unpleasant self serving arse.

I think it is Farage who is the "unpleasant self serving arse". Him and a few others Jacob Rees Mogg and Arron Banks for starters.

Anyway, leaving that aside, why is Gina Miller the only person people are focusing on? There are many people involved in all the ongoing as well as past and future legal challenges. Why aren't they getting the same threats and abuse?

I don't only mean here - also in the press.

Given the profile of the people doing the threatening and the particular sexist and racist nature of the attacks I'd say there were two depressingly obvious reasons.

Again, not the insults on here but what she has received via Twitter and elsewhere.

I agree but even the mainstream press have really only ever mentioned her .

mango, that is the ultimate 'cake and eat it' plan though. That demonstrates exactly why this is all such a fucking shambles.

If we are going to do this we should be striving for what we actually want, not want we can get now with a view to changing it we we decide we don't like it.

I'm pretty sure you're in the Leave minority wrt to wanting a soft Brexit too. It makes it all pointless.

I disagree we bring much to the EU, its not arrogance its simply true. But then If I didn't believe that, if I thought we needed the EU and badly, then I wouldn't be a leaver, I would be a remainer

Loving how the fact Farage has had to get body guards, his family were chased out of a pub are totally ignored.

I don't think Farage's family should be abused or chased away. I don't think he should either in the sense that he is another human being, but things like being virtually chased out of Scotland were pretty cool IMO. They didn't want him there spreading his hatred and bile - good for them.

I don't think Gina Miller and Farage are comparable. IMO Farage has done untold damage to this country. And continues to do it.

I think Gina Miller gets the focus because she is seen as/perceived as the figure head in the same way Farage is seen as the figurehead despite being excluded from the official Leave campaign. I can see that GM's race and gender might be why she has been singled out but I think it's more that she is the actual/perceived figurehead. She is loathed by the Leave camp in the same way Farage is loathed by the Remain camp. There will always be extremists using unacceptable language and actions and its beyond the pale on both sides.