The Brexit Arms. Please drink ( & post ) responsibly.

[surferjet]

Currently 48% of voters are being completely ignored - we are not being represented

A large proportion of the 52% have been ignored and not represented for the last 10 plus years.

time4chocolate - I get that. I know that many amongst the 52% have been completely ignored and that is not OK, in the same way that having no representation for the 48% is not OK. I would also suggest that a lot of the issues amongst the 52% were nothing to do with the EU and could be laid largely at the door of our successive domestic governments.

I am hearing this (no representation for the 48%) from both Labour and Tory voting friends. The issue seems to be not so much whether we are leaving, but the particular type of Brexit. More specifically, worries about the economic impact.

So what do the 48% actually want?
Do they want Brexit to be stopped?

So what do the 48% actually want?
Do they want Brexit to be stopped?
We might be able to answer that more comprehensively if we knew what Brexit was. That's the fundamental problem for lots of Remain voters: There's no semblance of a plan, no leadership and no vision seven months after the vote. You think people are going to be satisfied with that?

Some Remain voters may well have come around to the idea of leaving the EU if they had a rough idea of what form that leaving would take.

What the 48% want, I imagine, is for the government to acknowledge that we now have a divided country and for them try to organise a Brexit that will work for everyone, not just the anti-immgrant brigade.

"A large proportion of the 52% have been ignored and not represented for the last 10 plus years"

And equally of the 48%.

People didn't vote remain because they were happy with the government or with government policy. They voted remain because they thought our problems would be compounded, not solved, by relinquishing membership of the EU.

That's very true, Kaija. Especially for people who live in safe seats.

I love this whole "yeah, Lib Dems are cool, whatever, I'd vote for them" attitude from leavers now though. It is very encouraging,

I'm really fed up to the back teeth with this ' nobody's taking into account the views of the 48%b who voted remain.
What do you think happens at a general election? 34% - or whatever, vote for the winning party and they get in! Nobody moans that no one is considering the views of the rest of the voters who didn't vote for the winning party! Everyone accepts the result and gets on with it. Why is this vote so different?
As for being a leaver but having voted LD in the past and may do in the future. I've never voted for them because they are 'cool'! I've voted for the local MP who was very good and I may do again if I think the candidate will do a good job locally.

"Why is this vote so different?"

I agree. It is no different. You don't stop opposing government policies that you believe are wrong after a general election. Nor do you stop opposing the government's interpretation of an advisory referendum after the vote. That's democracy.

Er, this vote is so different because we don't automatically get asked our opinion again in 5 years' time.

After a general election, if you are disappointed with the result, you continue to campaign for what you believe in throughout the life of the government- that's why opposition parties continue to oppose and don't just say "Oh, we lost; we'd better agree with everything the winners propose."

Then in 5 years' time, at the next general election, you can review the performance of the government and decide if you want to vote to keep them or to change them.

We're not being told that we can try Brexit and then in 5 years' time vote again based on whether we think it's working or not.

This is, apparently, on a slender margin, irrevocable.

I was just about to post exactly what ontop said.

This vote was all or nothing. There's no going back once we leave so it's very, very different to a GE.

Hopefully the EU bullymasters won't last another five years but even if they do it was very clear this was a one off in out vote there really wasn't much confusion.

Except that there is absolutely no agreement on what "out" means.

I'm really fed up to the back teeth with this ' nobody's taking into account the views of the 48%b who voted remain.

Me too Corcory.
It's tedious.

Also, like you, I never voted Lib Dem because they were 'cool' - in fact the Lib Dem MP I voted for was very 'uncool', he just happened to be the best choice for that area and always worked hard for his constituency.

Out means not in.
It was very clear.

Out of the customs union? Norway style? Switzerland? Both of those were suggested as models to follow by prominent leavers. It is anything but simple.

I wasn't saying it was confusing. I was explaining why it was different. And why, even when a vote will be re-run in a few years' time, people opposed to the result don't just shrug their shoulders and walk away.

Out means not in. It was very clear

Just as clear as Brexit means Brexit eh?

And what does 'not in' mean? Switzerland is 'not in.' Norway is 'not in.' The USA is 'not in'. It's only simple if you believe that massively complex things can be reduced to a binary one-word choice.

It means out.

" It's only simple if you believe that massively complex things can be reduced to a binary one-word choice."

And herein lies the whole problem.

It means out.
Very profound, Semi.
What kind of out?

semipermanent by 'out' do you mean completely out of the Single Market?

How do you see that actually working given we're a net importer and the EU is our biggest trading partner?

Brexit means um...

Prominent leave campaigners, including Farage, saying we could be like Norway and Switzerland, Daniel Hannan - 'nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market...' Owen Patterson - 'only a madman would leave the market' Arron Banks - 'increasingly the Norway options looks best for the UK'