The Brexit Arms. For all those who like a good drink, a good flounce, & a bit of trickery.

[surferjet]

Pull up a chair & relax......

It's quite ironic you calling others hypocrites surfer when the biggest hypocrite on here appears to be you.

Your Gucci clothes, £165 bottles of perfume and child in private school (memory a bit shady but I think the latter has been mentioned) hardly make you under privelidged do they?

You're much closer to the 'white privileged' than many yet you constantly try and make out their scum.

Quite odd really.

They're not their

Who are you addressing there, Surfer? I hope that's not a personal attack.

Hadn't even noticed you here today twofingerstoGideon - I'm talking generally. I'll try and notice you a bit more in future, but I do tend to skip past a lot of remainers on here.

Sorry.

surferjet
Are you Katie Hopkins?

I get that Scotland may be a bit different in respect of social mobility as evidenced by the diversity in our MPs and MSPs however I take issue with the underlying assumption that the Law Lords and associated legal professionals were all born privileged. I can point to a very large cohort of eminent legal professionals within my class mates who are all from state educated middle class backgrounds. Sometimes I see more people I know on the TV than I do in real life. Like the vestments and titles of the clergy the vestments and the titles of the judiciary are used to bestow the authority of Office. However it is a mistake to assume that the individuals in office started out with the qualities or indeed privilege of the office they hold.

When I referred to Sir Keir Starmer's interview at the weekend I used his title deliberately to make the point. A subtle but important distinction imo for the son of a toolmaker and a nurse. Baroness Helena Kennedy who he worked with is another who instantly springs to mind.

Hadn't even noticed you here today twofingerstoGideon - I'm talking generally. I'll try and notice you a bit more in future, but I do tend to skip past a lot of remainers on here.

Ah, so you were addressing the Leavers when you said this:
You don't mind a bit of white privilege when it suits you. Hypocrites.

Okay.

Deadsouls surferjet - Are you Katie Hopkins?
It pains me to say this, but Katie Hopkins has better arguments.

Here's the New Statesman piece that surfer was referring to:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/12/people-have-spoken-brexit-listening-them-another-matter

Just to be even handed I googled Gina Miller daughter of the ex Attorney General of British Guyana and educated at Roedean - can't get much more privileged establishment than that.

That said I take back some of my suspicions about Charlie Mullins only supporting Gina Miller because he wants to import a load of EU plumbers to undercut the locals. According to google he has an exemplary record working with government apprenticeship schemes and the Princes Trust.

When the population is split down the middle as discussed earlier it is surely somewhat fatuous to try to reduce the debate to identity politics?

The "puny £1.6 million salary" is lifted from the DM's biogs of the judges (it is attributed to Lord Sumption). The DM was trying very hard to drag up any pro-EU links or anti-Brexit sentiment on the judges, bless.

howabout, back when the original ruling came out I watched him being interviewed about why he was backing the court case.

He was continuously misunderstood by the interviews who weren't actually listening to what he was trying to say - the gist of his point was that it was nothing to do with thwarting Brexit as far as he was concerned; he was a remainer, but now that Brexit had been voted for he accepted it.
What he wanted clear, however, was that the correct legal procedure for exit was followed - if A50 was found (retrospectively) to have been triggered 'illegally' (by prerogative) then that would be terrible.
By ensuring the correct procedure is followed in its triggering, there is no room for challenges further down the line.

I am a leaver, but I do agree that it has to be watertight.

per wiki "The Guardian once described him as being a member of the "million-a-year club", the elite group of barristers earning over a million pounds a year.[15][8] In a letter to The Guardian in 2001, he compared his "puny £1.6 million a year" to the vastly larger amounts that comparable individuals in business, sports and entertainment are paid.[15]"

An historian turned lawyer and Sumption is the first person appointed to the Supreme Court without previously serving as a full-time judge since its inception in 2009. Not even a proper judge might be a criticism in some quarters.

Highly recommend signing up to the UK Constitutional Law Association blogs for anyone of a truly anorak disposition,

ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/12/06/robert-craig-report-of-proceedings-miller-supreme-court-day-1/

twofingerstogideon

it is quite a feat to make worse arguments than Katie Hopkins.

www.lotekstreetart.com/dear-capitalism.html

A bit of artwork in honour of Mark Carney

Informal lots of interesting stuff in that Newstatesman piece but the cognitive dissonance re the disinformation promulgated by DC and co somewhat sweeps away all semblance of reasoned discussion.

howabout I prefer the Ian Hyslop piece:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/12/age-outrage

So the £1.6m is his total earnings as a top barrister, rather than his salary as a Supreme Court judge? That's cleared that up then.

On the fence about Hislop Informal. Methinks he doth protest too much?

Had a bit more of a think about Hislop. The problem for me is he seems to be defending the absolute freedom to cause of offense however offensively while questioning the right of those on the receiving end to be offended and respond equally offensively. The other problem is that he is in a privileged position as a journalist with TV celebrity status attacking the faceless masses and twitterati and he seems blissfully unaware of the power imbalance in this interaction.

In these febrile times I personally think a degree of moderation may not go amiss.

Who are you addressing there, Surfer? I hope that's not a personal attack.
Twofingers - did you ever object to smallfox's extremely unpleasant personal attacks on anyone who dared disagree with her?

In fact, nobody knows exactly what people voted for except a narrow margin majority voted for leaving the EU

Given that Cameron stated emphatically that Article 50 would be triggered immediately in the event of a Leave result, I think Leave voters knew exactly what they wanted to happen and when.

howabout I don't read it that way at all. I read it that Hislop is defending Orwell's view: “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” It is that people are intolerant to any type of opposing view, I didn't read into it that Hislop was arguing for a license to be offensive.

Twofingers - did you ever object to smallfox's extremely unpleasant personal attacks on anyone who dared disagree with her?

Eh?

read interesting article today from old paper - Appeal of the wise men - stop brexit - Deutsche telecoms news website.
Piece was contradictory in that it appealed for Merkel to be lenient on UK and concessions, to try and prevent Brexit but that Brexit wont harm their economy...and cant be to lenient to stop others following, but a sign that German business leaders want soft brexit also...