The Brexit Arms goes forth! All welcome. Leavers, Remainers, Couldn't give a Tossers, & openly gay athletes.

[surferjet]

Welcome

why on earth do you think the judges want to be the punchbag in this?

Power, it must be an extraordinarily powerful feeling to have done what the have done.

WW at 14.39: Either you're a wind up merchant or you genuinely can't follow a train of thought.
(heavily suggests other poster is thick)

WW at 15.36: Gloria where do you get off? Calling someone ignorant isn't an argument. It's an admission of defeat.
(suggests calling someone ignorant (thick) isn't an argument, but an admission of defeat)

Thanks baby
Gah sums

An MP "owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion" Edmund Burke.

Exactly. We can hardly expect a remainer MP in a constituency where the vote was almost 50/50 (as mine was) to blindly follow the 'will of the people' if he believes it would be disaster for the country.

My own MP is in a very safe seat. We've had the same party since 1959. It is very unlikely that there would be a major swing here, regardless of how he votes in parliament. Many people don't care enough about Brexit one way or another and will have barely given it a thought since voting on 23rd June and many people will go and put that cross where they always do because to vote for a different party simply wouldn't cross their minds. Swing seats are a different matter, of course.

Gideon - another admirer welcome welcome

On the contrary being unable to follow a train of thought isn't the preserve of 'thick'people

It's often the result of someone having an idee fixe , they think it's such an indisutable almost de facto truth they are convinced that the other person must be wrong somehow and thus can't track the train of thought - however coherent.

Plainly it's the moral duty of MPs to vote the way the country voted but some of them have such an inflated idea of themselves

Gideon - another admirer
Admirer of what, WW? Certainly not of you, given the appalling personal attack you made on me on the previous thread.

Plainly it's the moral duty of MPs to vote the way the country voted
Not if they think it would be entirely detrimental to the country.

Some MPs may well have an inflated idea of themselves others may just understand our constitution.

In a direct democracy an MP would have to act as directed by their constituents, perhaps via referenda. In a representative democracy the constituents hand over responsibility to the MP who votes in accordance with their own, the MPs, beliefs.

Therefore an MP is not required to vote in a way the majority of constituents would agree with, unless the MP wants to.

MPs are accountable to constituents via the ballot box at elections.

In effect we hand over responsibility for decision making to our MPs. Yet another reason the referendum was a farce.

Therefore an MP is not required to vote in a way the majority of constituents would agree with, unless the MP wants to.
Indeed. Imagine if they had to consult their constituents every time they voted in parliament.

would it be the same sort of percentages

No idea Rufus, beyond me, but does anyone understand why May is so convinced she will win in the Supreme Court? The judges' judgement (which I have read) looks good to me. What am I missing?

What? I heard that. Who said a brain? As Obama said today after being heckled, we should respect the elderly.

Time to wander off methinks. See you tomorrow, unless one of our local kids takes pity on us and invites us for coffee.

Plainly it's the moral duty of MPs to vote the way the country voted

Nope i dont agree

I think if more than about 52%- 60% of their constituency votes one way then the MP should probably vote that way if they want to retain their job

If the MP is in a leave area but the vote was close then they should vote the way they believe is best

So not the way the country voted per se but (delending on %) almost definitely the way the constituency voted

It's often the result of someone having an idee fixe , they think it's such an indisutable almost de facto truth they are convinced that the other person must be wrong somehow and thus can't track the train of thought - however coherent.

An interesting piece of projective identification. You have diagnosed precisely the problem with your mindset. You've used de facto incorrectly but hey one can't have everything.

twofingers direct democracy can very easily be manipulated into tyranny, which is why it is NOT the way the UK Parliament works.

If there is any moral duty it is to vote for what an MP truly believes to be the best interests of his/her constituents and the country. Arguably the greatest good for the greatest number.

'The greatest happiness of the greatest number is the foundation of morals and legislation'. Bentham.

GloriaGaynor and that is the whole point of a representative democracy. To avoid the tyranny of the majority and work towards the greatest good for as many as possible.

Right, have we got everything ready for our fireworks party? 💥💥💥💥💥
Nick Clegg ready for burning?

Good.

Yes of me! you just stalk me around. It's rather flattering.

Imagine if they had to consult their constituents every time they voted in parliament.

Well they don't, it would be impractical. They don't this time either: it's already been done.

If there is any moral duty it is to vote for what an MP truly believes to be the best interests of his/her constituents and the country

So we are basically back to what I said earlier: the legitimacy according to you lies in the MP's own moral compass.

But that's not true at all: it lies in the fact that they have been entrusted by majority vote to use their moral compass appropriately. This is where their legitimacy lies. When there has been a majority vote by every one of their constituents and the result of that majority vote is a Vote Leave, it is their moral duty to observe the legitimacy of the majority vote - which is after all from where they draw their own legitimacy and authority - and vote with the majority.

It is the 'tyranny of the majority' which gives every MP her or his seat. What do you suggest as an alternative?

[sparkler]

When there has been a majority vote by every one of their constituents
here it should say
'When there has been a majority vote by every one of every MPs' constituents'

Remainers.
What do you think will happen to this country if Brexit is stopped?
I'm not talking about the £ or jobs or anything like that, I'm talking about the general mood, what can you foresee happening?

Because the tables are now turned on you.
I want to know exactly what will happen.
Down to the tiniest detail.
What have I got to look forward to?
Help me.

OBViously the sun will always shine, the universities will be full and marmite will be on our shelves again

Diet Coke for me. I'm fat.