This is potentially a game-changer!

[pensivepolly]

Breaking news from the High Court on Article 50: www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/03/parliament-must-trigger-brexit-high-court-rules

Yoko I do hear that you would like to stay in the EU. I believe in some aspects the EU has been positive, but it has taken some directions that are not and there does seem to be a lack of clarity on direction in the future. I also think the capacity to change and drive change within it is not as great as it should be. I don't think that the EU bureacracy is listening as attentively as it could be to member states populations, but hell I don't think many of the governments across the EU are listening the way they should. The EU has the capacity to be a great thing, and at the same time the most god awful disaster known to man. At this moment in time I'm not sure which it actually is.

And I should listen to the lady who brought the appeal? I think she is primarily concerned with feathering her nest. She doesn't give a shit about the likes of me!

I would hope though when it is debated, all sides of the argument and all perspectives are heard. I hope the very best deal for all the people of our country happens. Just consigning some to the bin will not ultimately help.

"And what happens if the MPs then vote to block the exit from the EU, either for a while or indefinitely?"

At the next general election you vote them out and vote in an MP that supports Brexit. That's how parliamentary democracy works.

Why would you think anyone's suggesting you should listen to the lady who brought the appeal? She has no power. It's the decision of the court, possibly after an appeal, that you'll have to listen to. Because they do.

sportin what you have said is not wrong, but considering the alternative, I'd rather stay. We are not ready to leave. Look at our government! Look at our opposition! No plan, hurriedly trying to create the vision of a post brexit Britain but also basing this around what they themselves do not know or can not control (why do they insist we will have xyz relationship with the EU when numerous EU Premier's say they will not entertain that vision). It's embarrassing tbh, it's like someone creating plans for an event they have no control over. It shows how superficial our current leaders are. I hope this now will be properly debated and voted on, so we all will know what brexit actually means.

All that Daily Mail talk about the rise of Post brexit Britain infuriates me! We haven't left yet, so this is nothing but dangling in limbo with a weaker pound

I think a lot of us are probably damned if we do and damned if we don't. Life for a great many is probably pretty bad one way or another. I do agree that we have a pretty disfunctional political class all told. I think that is what is broken. A lot of people I know say they don't want to vote because they don't have anybody that they feel they can vote for.

I don't think either side can know what will or would have happened, in 5, 10 or 20 years time. At the rate the world is changing, and in many unexpected ways I think realistically the only thing you can do is expect the unexpected!

sportin I share your concerns about the EU but am ardently pro-Remain.

I was very happy when I read this this morning!

Agent 'I wonder how many MPs will vote as their constituents did ( as they should )'

Can't agree with that assertion. Not least as it likely would not accurately reflect what the vote would be now if held again. So so many lies were told and stories spun, Project Fear et al, that many people have been pretty clear their vote would now be different.

Bluntness Great Q vis the whip, though I genuinely cannot see how TM could call for a three line whip on something that so potentially as explosive - if she did so I suspect her career would (rightly) be over. She's an unelected PM, not a dictator in a one party State.

Cameron must be bloody glad he got his coat when he did huh?

Create an unprecedented shitstorm in order to get elected then bugger off to a life of UHNW when it hits the fan

In fact pretty much all of the lying fuckers major players on both sides have now removed themselves from the picture haven't they?

I'll shrug off the broken whatever you vote, we'll bring in promise much the same as the broken we'll pay all the EU money to the NHS one which hitherto was apparently an acceptable way to run the leave campaign.

We look ridiculous to the rest of the world with our shambolic grasp of what sovereignty actually means. It's embarrassing.

LadyStoic My Tory MP has categorically told me that he wouldn't dream of voting against the referendum, despite his constituency having voted in the majority to remain.

Delighted to read this. I hope it doesn't get overturned on appeal, so fingers crossed there.

I was a remain voter so obviously I would greatly prefer not to Brexit, but whether we do or don't then Parliament absolutely must have the ability to debate and vote on every aspect.

We live in a Parliamentary Democracy. The referendum, which by the way was supposed to be advisory only (ha bloody ha), did not change that and Theresa May has no right to assume that she can either.

Chances are, if not overturned at Supreme Court, MPs will accept the referendum vote and agree to triggering A50. However, the Lords aren't encumbered by a pesky electorate and Leavers will have a good old moan about unelected monsters defying the will of the people. The irony of the never complaining about HoL before will be lost on many of them.

The irony is that, if the Supreme Court overturn this decision on appeal, the claimants could probably take it to the European Court...Imagine.

mellon lol now that would be very ironic!

TBH I'm very happy about that decision. The vote was fur Brexit but it never said what sort of Brexit and it certainly didn't say TM type of Brexit seen that she supported Remain anyway!
Seen that we actually do t know what sort of Brexit people want (no vote on that), then We really NEED the parliament involvement to decide what sort if Brexit we will get. TheMPs are the closest thing we have to the population representation on that subject.

Plus how can you say youbwill follow the population owed and respect democracy if you don't follow the law yourself (note: referendum are only advisory and therefore do not have to be followed - by law).

Exactly, Hummus. TM & co were attempting to subvert the law. "Parliamentary sovereignty" means just that. Parliament should be the ultimate arbiter of how this should go, of whether we have Brexit (still likely), and of what kind of Brexit we end up with (I hope not a hard one). I still maintain that rioting on the streets is inappropriate and undemocratic when government (with a small g) goes about its duty. Despite very strong feelings among Remainers, I don't recall any rioting just because they didn't like the outcome of the process.

I am scared stiff this will trigger an election that will see UKIP win seats in parliament. Whatever your views on the EU, I don't think anyone is clear, (including them). on what else they stand for. For them to be swept into Westminster on a single issue would be very bad for democracy.

Then they'll live with the consequences come the next election, won't they? Whatever those turn out to be. That's how parlimentary democracies work.

I don't see there's any need to elect Kippers when the Tories have become UKIP II.

The Blood Moon.

My head is spinning, round and round.

The toing and froing is not doing the UK any favours in the eyes of astounded onlookers either tbh.

Just to add my voice to the unofficial mumsnet count, I too will take to the streets. There is a very simple issue here, the people of this nation were asked to take this decision. We did. The entire process was extensive, highly emotive and extremely expensive. But the nation was asked to decide. This ruling completely negates our democratic right of referendum. Those remainers celebrating today, need to think very carefully that in succeeding with this prevaracation over a decision you dont personaly like, will impact our nations abiliy to ever have an further referendums over the next few centuries. Ruining our grandchildrens futures? You have just done so. You have succeeded in claiming the electorate are too stupid to understand such matters of politics, and have undermined any right of referendi forever. This indeed changes the power of politicians, corporations and the establishment behind them, for generations to come and you should be utterly ashamed. The nation was asked to decide the issue. We did. Shame on the lot of you.

There will never be another referendum on a complex matter of national importance. In 10-20 years we may follow Germany, who banned them completely after WWII, due to the Nazis use of them to give a veneer of democratic support for their policies.

Many if not most of the German population, as the British population now, had no idea of agenda behind those referendums, nor the consequences.

Nothing has been as expensive as the cost to our country of the fall of the pound, ongoing costs which will hit pockets in 2017. Then you will begin to see the true price.

If you don't understand the dangers of subverting parliamentary process, and the dangers of an executive power grab, then it's time you learnt. There are plenty of examples from history.

It's not referendi btw, it's referendums or referenda.

Yep. The people who should feel ashamed are those who are demonising today's result either through ignorance or devilment. Nobody voted for Article 50 to be triggered without a parliamentary vote, whatever some may now claim, and those who want constitutional change of this ilk to be able to be triggered by royal prerogative are the ones risking our grandchildren's futures. Disgusting.