Xenophobia: Brexit official discourse

[jaws5]

Hearing one minister after another at the Tory conference today has made me feel ill: So foreign doctors are welcome UNTIL more British doctors have been trained in a hurry, foreigners will be treated as second class citizens when applying for a job, and EU nationals are one of the "main cards" in Brexit negotiations. I cannot imagine any other country in the world where the official discourse of the governing party would include these statements without it being condemned as xenophobic. Shame on them.

[Helmetbymidnight]

Yes, I can't help feeling that it IS all rhetoric and that actually, it will prove absurd for May to push for reactionary measures...

But even if its ONLY rhetoric, it is ...sick. It seems they only have to grunt 'cut immigration' and the people lap it up regardless of the consequences or even the truth.

On the radio this morning, they were talking about the possible 5 billion taxes/35,000 jobs lost in finance if there's hard exit, and also the destruction of UK as an academic center of excellence, but as long as 'numbers' are down - who cares?

Still, I took Mollie's advice to 'get a grip' and feel sooo much better. Thanks Mollie.

[prettybird]

I have a very German sounding surname, was born in a different country but have been naturalised British since I was 10.

Do I need to start carrying my passport around? Or does the fact that I'm white and have a posh Scottish accent mean I'm ok?

I know it's not got to that yet, but it certainly feels like it's moving that way

[RedToothBrush]

jaws5 Wed 05-Oct-16 09:05:11
And i love London too. I don't think I want to go outside of London now, very aware of my accent!

PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT THINK LIKE THAT. That's equally bad.

There are plenty of places around the UK that voted overwhelming to remain - its very localised. I know our constituency voted remain although our voting area appears as leave; it was the other part of the voting area that tipped the balance. It really really isn't that straight forward. There are plenty of places even in the north that think this is fucknuggetry and wouldn't blink at a foreign accent.

Don't dismiss the rest of the country on fear and misconceptions of the truth. If you do, you are doing the same as those who dismiss those who happen not to hold a British passport or were not born here or have the wrong skin colour or religion.

[Coldest]

Teresa May was a vile and xenophobic home secretary and proving the same as the PM.

[jaws5]

Red I see what you are saying but I know people who have been shamed in public for speaking German/French with their children and I am suddenly aware that, although I hold two degrees form UK universities, I sound foreign. Also, the main reason to go to other towns was to visit my partner's family. In the past they have questioned why I don't speak English to my children -- I was being unfair to them, apparently as we are in England! The same people voted Leave as "it's only a little island", and they've had enough of Europe telling them what to do, etc. I don't feel like seeing them at the moment, funny that! But I see your point.

[Figmentofmyimagination]

We should do more to 'out' the use of 'othering' words that are being given official sanction - presumably after sufficient focus group testing - today's word from May is 'sneering'. horrible word - marvellously onomatopoeic - a change from 'strivers and skivers' but equally manipulative.

[shutthefrontdoor123]

Where is the opposition? Why are they getting away with this? It's plastered all over the papers and people are lapping it up.

I do believe, that when it comes down to it, and they've actually 'consulted' with business and NHS leaders and other less populist, crowd-pleasing 'experts', there won't actually be much change. But surely they can see that the rhetoric is poisonous. Systems and policies might be diluted, but the racist man on the street keeps being emboldened. First the EU migrants are scapegoats, then non-EU, then anyone who looks a bit different.

[RedToothBrush]

I sometimes fear that
people might think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you.

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments,
transportations, war and persecution."

Michel Rosen Poem

[Peregrina]

Good poem Red, I hadn't seen it before. It puts me in mind of the lady who was on Question Time complaining about her working tax credits being cut. She had voted Tory, no doubt pleased with the anti-benefit scroungers rhetoric. What she didn't realise was that she was included in that category, and got a rude awakening.

[smallfox2002]

People are stupid, there is no changing that.n

[topsy777]

I am appalled at Rudd's speech.

However, Rudd is a Remainer and she proofs that not all remainers are not whatever the word in the title said.

[Peregrina]

I would argue that a lot were Remainers of convenience. Like May herself. Now singing the Breakfast means Breakfast oops sorry, Brexit means Brexit tune as loudly as possible, to make up for being on the 'wrong' side before.

[ScaredFuture99]

Red YY to that poem but very few people seem to be aware of what is going on.

I have noticed that in the last few months, all the new people I meet are now asking where I'm coming from. All that within minutes of meeting me. It never ever used to be like this. And I've had that experience where I live (voted OUT in massive numbers) but also in London and other areas that voted IN.

And yes no opposition at all.

I'm quite scared of the future TBH, scared for myself, for my dcs (who have duel citizenship) and even more scared because DH (British) doesn't see any issue at all with all of it and is burying his head in the sand, when he is not getting angry at me pointing out these issues....

[ScaredFuture99]

The xenophobic discourse that we've heard during the campaign has been left to stand as if not an issue.
That means it has been legitimised and it is now normal to make xenophobic comments and it's almost impossible to say that no it's not ok anymore.

But yes it makes me wonder too how much the general attitude of British people towards 'I'mmigrants' was down to pressure from society and being politically correct whilst actually being racist/xenophobic inside. After all Britain was a very racist place in the 1970s-80s.

[ScaredFuture99]

Btw the issue isn't that people think that everyone who voted leave voted against immigration.

The problem is that no one was prepared for a leave vote. So they gave the job to whoever was happy to go for it (and few people dare go for it, incl BJ because it is a very risky thing to handle).
So we've ended up with TM who has never been elected by the population, whose idea of what Brexit means and how hard we should go down on immigrants has never been approved by the population.
The issue really is that the system is undemocratic and does NOT reflect the wish of the population as a whole.

She has free reign to do whatever she pleases for the next 2 (3?) years wo having to be held accountable two anyone at all and wo having being chosen by the population .....

[WrongTrouser]

"But I suspect that the vast majority of Leave voters have now moved on after their 5 minute brain activity at the referendum. I know it's a horrible thing to say but it's quite accurate, unfortunately."

I think some posters do need to listen to themselves. If you genuinely want to fight bigotry, hatred and "othering", you need to think about the language you are using about all other groups of people. By all means, vent your spleen at the Tories and people who are spouting bigoted rhetoric, but joining in and making stereotyped, ignorant, dehumanising and intolerant statements just about a different group of people is really not going to help.

[jaws5]

Completely agree scared and we are in a very similar position. I have too been asked where I am from a lot recently, maybe I notice it more as I am on my guard. But this has completely changed my relationship with this country. I am fortunate in that my British husband is very supportive and also angry.

[ScaredFuture99]

And because there is very little opposition and opposition is systematically being laugh at (See the admission of the BBC re Corby and how they recognised they weren't being neutral). And newspaper don't have a real balance of ideas and opinions (they are in majority leaning towards he conservatives, bar maybe the guardian that is usually seen as the paper who lefty intellectuals).

So yes, IMO, no democratic process at all where ever you look, even then it has the veneer of democracy.

[ScaredFuture99]

Wrong I agree bat being careful bat not 'othering' people too.
I do wonder though where are all the people that were so shocked at the results and got so angry about it.

For about 1 month after the vote, lots of people seemed to have very strong feelings about the situation. Now? Nope. Everyone has gone back to their normal routine, just highlighting 'well that's how it is. We can't do anything about it. Just make the best of it'
British phlegm or being sheep?

[usuallydormant]

Even more alarming, it's not just Brexit - some of you might be interested in a speech given by the UN human rights commissioner directed mainly at a NL hatemonger but namechecked Farage (should maybe substitute May now) and highlights the dangers of the current focus on nationalism, soundbites and wanting a return to a mythical past.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/06/un-human-rights-high-commisioner-zeid-raad-al-husseins-speech-reject-populist-bigots-in-full

[ExitPursuedBySpartacus]

Exactly Wrongtrousers

[Mistigri]

I think some posters do need to listen to themselves. If you genuinely want to fight bigotry, hatred and "othering", you need to think about the language you are using about all other groups of people. By all means, vent your spleen at the Tories and people who are spouting bigoted rhetoric, but joining in and making stereotyped, ignorant, dehumanising and intolerant statements just about a different group of people is really not going to help.

I agree that language is important, but the truth is too.

Someone who voted Brexit on the grounds of restoring parliamentary sovereignty, and who isn't now worried about the executive power grab, is either a hypocrite, ill-informed, or stupid. Equally, racist views don't get any less racist because you wrap them in a flag.

[GreenandWhite]

Isn't it despicable that the conservative party blame EU migrants for problems with public services?

It's Tory policy to curb public spending and public services. They curb and cut and then.... blame issues with accessing public services on EU citizens living in the UK.

Think about the terms:
Education Tourism
Health Tourism
etc.
Well it's education and the NHS that are mismanaged and/or privatised.

[GreenandWhite]

Is it the fault of EU citizens living in the UK that the NHS is on its knees?
Hell no.

It's mismanagement, complacency a culture of inefficient bureaucracy and many other reasons. If EU citizens affect the NHS in any significant way it's probably by paying taxes and working as health care staff.

[IamWendy]

As far as I can see, the great repeal act is just taking back control of our laws from the EU. Then they get picked over for 'keepers' and the rest changed or dumped. How is it undemocratic for a law made by the EU (who I can't vote out,) to be changed by a government i voted in... And could vote out if i didn't like what they were doing??