"There were lies on both sides"

[BertrandRussell]

I have taken this statement about the EU Referendum campaign as read- but I have suddenly realized that I can't actually think of any lies from the Remain Campaign. Can anyone enlighten me?

You don't give up, do you.

Sorry- I didn't realise I was supposed to.

I'm struggling to think of anything truthful from the Leave side of the argument Bert.

I'm still utterly devastated about the whole thing. I've had to spend time in hospital this week and the nurses from the EU countries were so wonderful. How the hell are we going to be able to replace them?

You can't claim Cameron's promise as a lie - for all we know he intended to stay on and changed his mind when he realised the enormity of the task ahead of him. He was always lazy. Equally he clearly didn't think Leave would win.

Osborne may have intended to post an immediate budget but Cameron left so he had no support, many Brexiteers were very anti for obvious reasons, and then he was fired.

The punishment budget is coming in the Autumn it's just been rebranded a fiscal 'reset'.

We can't claim that £350million a week was anything but a lie.

Oh god not another one

It's in the correct topic Nina

Bert

I think remain focused too heavily on what would be lost and not what we had already gained.

It's unhealthy to obsess over it.

I'm not getting into a discussion of what was going on in Cameron's head, it's absurd. I can't stand the man but I think he was in denial and was certain he was going to win. He only wrote a Remain speech, I don't think he'd seriously considered what he was going to do if he lost.

However, I have the sense to know that I haven't the remotest idea what he thought, and that why I said there is not enough evidence to claim this one as a lie.

Nina - sorry but rather important and fascinating in a scary way.

It's unhealthy to obsess over it.
Oh good. A new way to try to stifle debate about the biggest constitutional issue of our time. Maybe you could read this, Nina
www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/08/30/the-brexit-censorship-campaign

Been wondering the same thing. Got nothing.

It's unhealthy to obsess over it.

Even if this were true, which is bloody well isn't, that would make you hypocritical to come to the thread to even comment on it.

He made a promise and immediately reneged on it - I wasn't speculating about why but a more obvious answer is that he thought remain would win but promised to stay in the event of a leave vote because he didn't want people to vote leave just to get rid of him!

I think a significant number of people did vote to give him a bloody nose - I thought of doing so myself. And as someone else has said, he was lazy and complacent.

The £4,300 thing

Its worked out as lost income per household using a scenario of a deal like the CETA.

To get there what the treasury did is look at two models, UK in EU and UK with a CETA like deal, and project economic growth and conditions based on these models up to 2030.

You can then look at the 2 real GDP figures for 2030 and divide them up between the number of households and compare the final figures.

However what they didn't do is increase the number of households, they based in on the number of households now.

I'm not sure if that's dishonest, or a fairly complex bit of economics which they then tried to simplify.

Is it more dishonest than the £350 mllion? I don't know.

I would consider Cameron's statement that he would stay on as PM if the vote was to Leave as a white lie that I don't blame him for.

If he had been honest and said that he would immediately resign if the vote was to leave, that would have been a massive skew to the whole result as there is suddenly a new headline "if you hate Cameron then vote leave to get rid if him"

Even if you are on the Leave side I hope you would agree that such a message would be a disaster for democracy because it would mean that such a huge step was being taken based on votes made for reasons which were utterly unrelated to whether or not EU membership is a good thing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37238641 Comments by the Electoral Reform Society about the 'Glaring deficiencies in the EU referendum.

cexu I think a certain number did vote leave to get rid of Cameron, thinking that since he won a surprise victory in the last election, he would safely do so again.

IMO, the result has been a disaster for democracy. It has made the country which invented Parliamentary democracy look a laughing stock in the world. It's meant Remainers being rebranded as Remoaners and told that Leave won, suck it up. As Ian Hislop said, if a party loses at a General Election, they don't shut up and stop opposing, but somehow with this Referendum, this is what 16 million people have been told to do.

... based on votes made for reasons which were utterly unrelated to whether or not EU membership is a good thing.

I think we can safely say this happened anyway, unfortunately.