Sarkozy demands border shifted to Britain

[Bookaboo]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/28/nicolas-sarkozy-demands-border-controls-for-thousands-of-migrant/

...but, if many of the migrants don't have a passport, how will they be allowed to Britain anyway? And presumably they would need a ticket for the ferry or the train.

AFAIK, the French do not police the border in Calais

They do - exit controls, albeit sometimes cursory, are standard in France when leaving the Schenghen zone.

Despite what the British papers would have you believe, much of the cost of security at the ports and at Coquelles has been born by the French (both public and private sector). This is one of the reasons why ending juxtaposed controls is hugely popular in the Nord-Pas de Calais area, and an easy win for national politicians.

EmilyAlice I don't ever use Calais because if we use a short ferry crossing then it's always Dunkirk where my best friend lives, but yes - controls always fairly cursory before this year, now it's become ridiculous. The car in front of us - normal family car with UK plates - took nearly 15 mins to get through UK border controls (having passed through check-in and then French border controls normally) and they spent about 5 minutes minutely examining our passports - british couple with a kid travelling on French plates. It's now more hassle than flying. My friends in Dunkirk don't bother with shopping daytrips to the UK any more, as it takes so long to negotiate security that it's hardly worth it.

It is hard to know what would happen really. The security problem would obviously shift to the ferry companies who would still not be able to let anyone board without a passport / identity card.
I don't know if all the companies do it now, but the ones we use regularly ask for your name / DOB / nationality details when you book. I travel quite often as a foot passenger and that involves passport checks by ferry company, French border control and then UK border control.
I totally understand what the politicians are saying but in practice I can't see what the difference would be (apart from lots more people and crossings) between Calais and the ports where the UK border has never been in France.

I imagine the main difference would be less French government spending on maintaining border security at ports - refugees don't have the money to buy ferry tickets, but if the French were no longer obliged to commit police resources to keeping refugees and illegal migrants away from the channel ports and Coquelles, and if there were no longer a British security presence, it would become almost impossible to prevent illegal crossings, including by small boats.

I also still dont understand how it will make a difference? surely if eurostar is fined (?) 2k per illegal migrant they will go bust pretty quickly and problem solved, or increase theirchecks, problem solved again?

I don't entirely agree that refugees don't have money to buy ferry tickets, because they often pay a considerable amount to people smugglers. Otherwise I agree with you: yes, we could see more small boats attempting to cross, and I shudder just envisaging the horrors that is likely to produce.

bombadier much of the work of preventing refugees reaching the UK is not done at border controls - it's done upfront, by French police who stop would-be lorry and train jumpers from reaching the ports/ tunnel, and by perimeter security which is partly funded and staffed by the UK.

These migrants are not, for the most part, going to pass through border controls, juxtaposed or not. But the existence of juxtaposed controls obliges the French and the UK to cooperate to secure the UK border at Coquelles and the ferry ports. If this cooperation ceases to exist, then illicit migration will increase.

And I agree with tiggytape that the practical and economic rationale for the Le Touquet agreement remains solid, but these are not rational times, and it's clear that moving the border to Dover has a lot of public support in France. Remember France has its own, more extreme but considerably less inept version of UKIP to contend with, and the UK border issue is an easy win for mainstream politicians wanting to look tough.

The agreement with France wasn't made because we are all EU buddies and the French wanted to be nice to her near neighbour.

tiggytape. I am quite sure that you are correct. But in the same way that a significant number of Leave voters blamed the EU for problems which could and should have been laid at the door of our own Government, there is no reason to suppose that French voters will think any more rationally. They see a problem - it's the fault of the English.

Its likely to happen, but wont make much difference either way, except the UK may have to accept more refugees.

However as Dublin is likely to come to an end, then maybe not.

The difference at the tunnel to the ferry ports is that people can walk the tunnel if they manage to break in, so it not about Eurostar letting them on the trains.

I think that for aspiring Presidential candidates of the right, the rhetoric will be important, but when the practicalities are actually discussed it may well be that they will find that the status quo is better.

I think that for aspiring Presidential candidates of the right, the rhetoric will be important, but when the practicalities are actually discussed it may well be that they will find that the status quo is better.
Well, if our own - and the US - situation is anything to go by, the public only cares about rhetoric now, it's fine not to have a plan, the status quo is probably better, but let's do it anyway. Modern politics isn't it? I think this could be a real vote winner for Sarkozy even if there's zero chance of implementation. Maybe the good folk of Thanet could build a wall to keep all the forrin people out.

How lovely that a supposedly "educated" person wants the jungle moved to Kent to punish all the people of Kent for ukip managing to gain a foothold here. One main reason why ukip got a foothold was because we do have a lot of areas of high immigration and asylum seekers tend to get dumped in Kent communities where they don't integrate very well, if at all. I'm not a ukip voter or a leave voter but it's not hard to see why some people in Kent turned to ukip. Does that mean we should be punished by the jungle being set up in Kent? To be honest it surprises me that poster is allegedly doing a masters in eu law with such a narrow minded shitty outlook. Doesn't seem a very intelligent opinion to me.

Oh yes because the people of thanet are all racist aren't they. Maybe you should look at the reasons why ukip got in instead of assuming they're all racist thickos.

You're right, neonrainbow.

I am pissed off that leave voters were taken in by people like Farage and manipulated by the mass media, and that the rest of us are going to have to live with the consequences of their poor decision.

But the people of Thanet are no more or less thick or racist than leave voters anywhere else in the country, and the real architect of this situation is David Cameron.

Apologies.

Perhaps the Calais jungle should be moved to David Cameron and Nigel Farage's gardens instead.

and the real architect of this situation is David Cameron.
And Tony Blair, don't forget.

Yes, the lack of a proper policy to resettle refugees can be laid at their door.

Loveintokyo id definitely support that policy!

"Maybe you should look at the reasons why ukip got in instead of assuming they're all racist thickos."

UKIP got one seat in the GE, they played on xenophobia and fear throughout their campaign, their vote is far higher in areas with little immigration that it is in areas with high immigration.

Lets not pretend that UKIP campaigned on anything other than an anti immigrant policy, and have had to suspend counsellors for their racist comments.

In fact is is a bilateral agreement between France and the UK and absolutely nothing to do with EU membership of either nation at all.

The agreement itself was nothing to do with the EU but it was based on co-operation between 2 EU members. With us buggering off there's no obligation for the French to give us any special terms.

On the subject of Leave campaign racism, a UN commitee has concluded that British politicians fuelled the rise in racist hate crimes after the vote.

They noted the Leave campaign was 'divisive, anti-immigrant and xenophobic'.

Racist hate crime surged by 42% and even higher in strongly Leave vote areas.

Links here:

guardian

independent

London never seems to have a problem integrating immigrants and asylum seekers.