So the Good Friday Agreement? How do LEAVE propose to sort? (on Brexit and Northern Ireland - title amended by MNHQ)

[RedToothBrush]

Go on. Lets have some answers.
Can we have a proper talk about how we can stop this affront to democracy and ripping up of a peace plan?

[caroldecker]

I have no doubt the EU is involved in the GFA because, as I said, it not a purely bilateral agreement. Can you please tell me what paras need to be amended.

The EU programmes mentioned are under the forward:

Areas for North-South co-operation and implementation may include the following:,

not must or have to but may.

The Peace IV programme will be looked at alongside all other EU funding. The Peace programmes from 1995 to 2013 provided 1.3 bn euros from the EU, less than 100m a year.

[caroldecker]

Hyacinth Your quote is in the preamble, not the agreement wording and is, therefore irrelevant.
When I said 'on here' I meant MN as a whole prior to the GE or any other time the ECHR has been discussed.

[HyacinthFuckit]

Anything that mentions the EU potentially needs amending. The sections referring to UK membership of the EU definitely need to change, and the others will depend on the negotiated terms: it's possible, particularly with a softer Brexit, that a non-EU member UK would still require eg a cross-sectoral approach to EU issues as we'd still be affected by them. The BIC might or might not still need to discuss EU issues post Brexit. This is why it is very silly indeed to say the GFA won't be affected.

[HyacinthFuckit]

Hyacinth Your quote is in the preamble, not the agreement wording and is, therefore irrelevant.

Nah, no dice. There's not a chance in hell that when you were talking about the GFA you actually meant the GFA but not the preamble, and even if you did it would be utterly illogical to exclude it. It is not for you to decide what is and isn't irrelevant within the GFA.

[GloriaGaynor]

Please don't suggest carol steps away from the thread, she's got me on tenterhooks to see how deep a hole she'll manage to dig next

Fair enough

[GloriaGaynor]

Re the ECHR that's what I thought you meant Carol. I'm impressed you've had the time to police MN's threads on the subject.

[PresidentOliviaMumsnet]

@Peregrina

I have also asked for the thread title to be changed. This is an important issue so let the thread title reflect that.

Hope this clarifies things a bit better
Thanks all

[Peregrina]

I must admit, that wasn't quite the amended title I expected to see. I would have said something like 'Brexit and N Ireland and its effects on the Good Friday Agreement'.

[Kaija]

You left the angry bit of the thread title right in there... Wasn't the idea to calm it down??

[caroldecker]

It is a very angry remainer thread though - there is no genuine worry about NI, more I hate leavers they are bastards.

[Kaija]

There is genuine worry about NI.

[HyacinthFuckit]

Yes. It is literally impossible that anyone on this thread might have the remotest concern about the impact of serious, imposed constitutional change on a very recently post-conflict society with a number of still active paramiltary groups. Especially those of us who live or have loved ones there.

In fact that's actually pretty low carol. I preferred it when you were saying silly things about how many times the EU is mentioned in the GFA, and when at one point you even made a quasi-sensible point in support of abstentionism, one I don't agree with but that showed some awareness of the political landscape. That was all good clean fun.

[smallfox2002]

No Hyacinth it certainly isn't.

Right wingers don't believe anyone can be motivated by public good, it all has to be self interest.

[whatwouldrondo]

Good grief. Even if you are so cynical and bitter that you can't believe that people can be altruistic, and have empathy, several of us have highlighted that we have loved ones in NI. People in Northern Ireland are very concerned indeed to the point that they are applying for Irish passports and considering whether they will move across the border. As several have highlighted the forces of extremism on both sides are beyond anything we see here and have a license to vent their sectarian identities, eg the marches, and in living memory did that with violence, including I might add a threat of bomb attacks that many of us lived with daily. The GFA was a hard fought for end to that, and of course anything that threatens that and undoing all the good that the EU has done for Northern Ireland is a cause for genuine concern.

[Peregrina]

I endorse ron's post. Some newspapers today are trumpeting about a fast Brexit i.e. the Express and an Article in the Telegraph, of the form 'hopes dashed for the Remainers' and not a word about the implications for N Ireland, which just shows how little thought they have given it.

[MangoMoon]

In the end, it all boils down to what the majority of the people want though.

If being a member of the EU and maintaining the status quo in NI & Ireland as a whole is what the majority of people in Ireland want, then that must happen.

Britain voted to leave the EU, that is the fact of the matter - it doesn't matter what county, region or country voted what way, what matters is the result.

If as a result of this, Scotland, NI & Wales decide they don't want to remain in a union then it is entirely up to them whether they break free or not - long gone are the days when the monarch or Westminster dictate sovereignty of other countries.

[Kaija]

"If as a result of this, Scotland, NI & Wales decide they don't want to remain in a union then it is entirely up to them whether they break free or not "

And you would be entirely relaxed about this prospect?

[Peregrina]

I wonder which PM would want to go down on record as the one who broke up the UK?

[Motheroffourdragons]

I suppose if it is a result of Brexit, then DC should take all the blame, with May as an accessory.

[MangoMoon]

It doesn't matter if I'm ok with it or not though, does it?

What matters is that the people who are actually of that country determine their own sovereignty, democratically.

Forcing rule onto people & countries never ends well.

[MangoMoon]

I wonder which PM would want to go down on record as the one who broke up the UK?

They won't be 'the one who broke up the UK' though.

They'd be 'the one who gave the people of those countries the opportunity to determine their own sovereignty'.

It's completely different.

[Peregrina]

It's completely different.

As Lord North has gone down in history as the man who gave the US their Independence, not the Man who Lost the American Colonies.

[Kaija]

Christ, Mango Moon.

Were you having a long sleep through the whole of The Troubles?

[Peregrina]

What matters is that the people who are actually of that country determine their own sovereignty, democratically.

So N Ireland said that their preference was for Remain, and Westminster's answer is 'Tough, there are more people in England and they said Leave, so you have to do what the English say, and BTW 90% of them don't give a F* about you.

[GloriaGaynor]

The honours for breaking up the UK will thus far be a joint award between Camerona and May. A soft Brexit could have avoided it.