Westministenders Continues. The one where are being grateful for having a Boris rather than a Trump and UKIP show Labour how it’s done.

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD TWELVE

The calm of the eye of the storm is upon us. The signs are there that more trouble is ahead. What now for Brexit, the blank cheque for our future?

May’s honeymoon can only last the Summer, until she has to do some proper graft. Her Cabinet have all gone on holiday and to swat up on their new specialised subject, and by god have they got some homework to do.

Well, all of them apart from Liam Fox, who has bugger all to do for some time.

Johnson needs to… well we all know what Boris needs to do. Bend over and take it like a good boy.

Davies needs to learn the entire structure and workings of the EU and its variations of trade agreements and relationships with other nations. Juncker has the FUKD in his little black book of people who have crossed him (yes, he actually has one of these) and has put Brit Hating Barnier in charge of the EU Brexit team. Davies must somehow hold his own against this experienced EU hardnut. In French. Oh and find a permanent office.

What do the others need to learn? Hammond - how to perform a bloody miracle. Patel - it is illegal to use foreign aid as a leverage for trade deals. Leadsom – er everything? Rudd – how to do bigger assault on liberty and human rights than her mentor. Fallon – how we will afford to defend ourselves with pitch forks, especially if we can’t use Trident for some reason and it becomes necessary. Our enemy; Russia? North Korea? Turkey? Isis? Na. Trump if he wins.

Brexit is now officially in the hands Whitehall’s unbelievers. Those overstretched officials who are already saying there is a gap in their capacity to deliver what Parliament wants without additional the burden of Brexit. These discredited experts are left wondering if their challenge is, in reality, Mission Impossible, and this is made worse by the pressure that just about every senior Brexiteer seems to say is ‘easy’ despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary. Which is cold comfort to everyone who voted – Remain or Leave alike.

We still don’t even know what Brexit is. It is still something which has no coherent ideology and no clear set of prescriptions for what ailes us as a society. It is a bundle of contradictions, united chiefly by what, and who, it opposes. Whatever the problem, Brexit can fix it. Whatever the threat, internal or external, Brexit can vanquish it, and it is unnecessary for Brexiteers to explain how.

May’s plan? Some say that she is the Dear Leader, some say she is an evil genius with Larry the Cat on her lap waiting for the Brexiteer Boys to fuck it up so we can Remain, some say she is blessed by the Ghost of Thatcher but we know her as The PM. –Sorry I’ve been itching to make the May/Hammond Top Gear gag for several weeks— The truth is, we just don't know yet.

Plus anything Brexit related about the Labour and UKIP leadership and the rest of the world thrown in to boot.

This is the quest for the answers that everyone wants and trying to keep an eye on those politicians and accountability (both here and abroad in the era of post-fact politics in the trail of Brexit). There maybe no single ‘truth’ but there sure as hell is a lot of bullshit to wade through. Get your wellies out, and plough on through with us.

No experience necessary. Sense of humour required.

-------------------------

Brexit Fall Out Timetable
Labour Hustings Nottinghamshire: Wednesday 17th August
Labour Hustings Birmingham: Thursday 18th August.
Labour Hustings Glasgow: Thursday 25th August.
Labour Hustings London: Thursday 1st September
UKIP Leadership Result: 15th September
Labour Leadership Result: Saturday 24th September
The Department for Exiting the European Union first question sessions in Parliament: Thursday 20th October
High Court hearing on a50: due 'no earlier than the third week in October'
US Presidential Election: 8th November
French Presidential Election 1st Round: 23 April 2017
French Presidential Election 2nd Round: 7th May 2017
German Federal Election: Between 27 August and 22 October 2017

Last thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2690632-Westminstenders-Continues-Boris-is-having-a-bad-week-Corbyn-resists-Its-gonna-be-a-long-summer?pg=1

I agree that the remain vote is also fractured, but they don't have to make a case in the same way.

Scotland leaving; yes in theory devo-max instead of independence could happen though the reality is that would be a lot less likely in that case simply because the constitutional shit and plan for leaving is complex but not to the same degree as the Brexit clusterfuck.

You don't have MPs and MSPs in a conflicted position for starters.

BREXIT.

Interesting story from the Herald about the SNP "gagging" a journalist The Herald (the daily one, not the Sunday one ), believed by many independence supporters of always trying to find a negative slant on the SNP.

It's apparently been denied by both the SNP and the STV - which actually ties in with the last line of the Herald item (if anyone got that far )

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2016/08/19/snp-stv-deny-gagging-journalist

Having looked back over some of Stephen Daisley's output, while I don't agree with everything he says, I wouldn't have thought that he'd said anything sufficiently outrageous for the SNP even bothering trying to gag him. In fact one of his more vitriolic recent pieces was against Labour.

As evidence of the Herald's propensity towards #SNPbad, here are two headlines - the second one only changed after they were called out on the first, together with the amended copy (I think the awful burden of extra traffic worked out at an average of an extra 9 cars a day )

It's actually indirectly a good illustration of the whole Brexit debate: that people will put their own slant on to things to confirm their prejudices. I just wish we had more proper investigative journalism as opposed to articles with no facts in them that merely serve their owners or the angle of the editor

It could also be said that those who vote Remain were in a position to find out exactly what they were voting for by reading the Lisbon Treaty. I confess I have only read bits of it myself.

The Leave camp had no similar document to fall back on, so as we find on these threads, they usually present a list of wishes. Sometimes dressed up as what 'Will' happen by various politicians. Had there been some sort of document, as was prepared for the Scottish Referendum then yes, they would have been able to say what they were voting for. (But I think I am repeating myself, sorry.)

The Leave camp had no similar document to fall back on, so as we find on these threads, they usually present a list of wishes. Sometimes dressed up as what 'Will' happen by various politicians.

I think this very much bears repeating, Peregrina.

Tiggy - I think it is very clear - 48% voted to stay. Therefore they want the status quo. The rest all have different wishes and did not all agree to the same thing.

A distant cousin of mine, emailed me a couple of weeks ago about the ref, wanting advice about her daughter in law's situation as she is an EU national.

She was telling me about how some of her friends voted to Remain because they were persuaded to by their adult children, even though they wanted to leave. When the result came through they were utterly delighted and shared their joy with my cousin.

In reassuring her, I sent my cousin a long list of all the reasons why Brexit was not easy and why it would be very difficult to merely 'kick out' her daughter in law.

She had her friends over for dinner that night and repeated the list to her friends who sat there, in sheer horror, as the reality of what Brexit actually means practically and how difficult it will be and the position we are likely to end up in, dawned on them and that actually their personal joy was totally meaningless and that their children had, indeed, been right all along and that they were right in listening to them in how they voted although it proved to be futile in the end.

The point being that Remain voters really do cover a broad church and actually included pro-Leavers (now apparently reformed).

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-department-will-only-be-given-32-senior-civil-servants-a7197056.html
The Brexit Department to have 32 senior civil servants.

Even the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, which only recently was tipped for closure, will have a bigger top team when the new Brexit department is fully up and running.

Embarrassingly for Brexit Secretary David Davis, his rival at the Foreign Office, Boris Johnson, wields a team nearly eight times bigger. (although the article later clarifies that many of these are diplomats)

It comes after Mr Davis had suggested his department would have 200 staff in total and skim off the best people from other Whitehall fiefdoms.

The Department of Culture, Media and Sport has 46 senior civil servants.
The Treasury has just under 100.

Oh.
That bodes well for our collective futures doesn't it?

Nah, red it's alright, David Davis already has his plan, he published it weeks ago, he knows exactly what he wants and always has, and firmly believes every other country in the EU will be queuing up to agree to it. He doesn't need civil servants, he's David Davis!!

::unicorns::
::unicorns::

Should Referendums be banned Followed by
part 2

It's an interesting read.
I hadn't realised that Harold Wilson was also trying to hold his party together. Still, he was an altogether more crafty operator than David Cameron.

The author's final conclusion is that he doesn't think banning Referendums would make much difference to the outcome in the end. I don't know whether that's just his way of making excuses for Cameron's stupidity.

Paul Mason believes that Owen Jones is another stalking horse in the vein of Angela Eagle, and will be replaced by someone of Peter Mandelson's choosing once he loses the leadership election, apparently.

I found this quite odd to read, especially because there are several uses of 0 instead of o in words, which makes it look a bit like a stream-of-consciousness rant on Playstation chat

Owen Smith or Jones, TheBathroomSink?

That sounds a lot like the David Miliband rumour that just won't die tbh.

oh ffs, I read the damn thing twice and still got it wrong. Smith. That one.

In my defence, I am painting DD's bedroom, with her 'help' which is not high on my list of fun things to do.

I don't know what to make of that news about The Brexit Department only being given 32 civil servants.

Does it mean that the nuts and bolts of the process are going to be handled by other departments entirely? Or in fact that when it comes down to it, Brexit will be a process largely undergone rather than undertaken by the UK, with the EU conducting the operation?

Or that May isn't taking Brexit as seriously as she should. Or that she doesn't want to take Brexit seriously Kaija?

I agree, that bit of news is definitely eyebrow raising. How I'm not sure, but it doesn't 'fit' somehow does it?

It says '32 senior civil servants'. Will there be a small army of cheaper more junior ones?

If not, if 32 is the sum total, I'd have to agree – I don't know what it means either, but it's puzzling. Setting the department up to fail?

"Paul Mason believes that Owen Jones is another stalking horse in the vein of Angela Eagle, and will be replaced by someone of Peter Mandelson's choosing once he loses the leadership election, apparently."

Erm, no he doesn't. His article is saying that he believes that if Corbyn wins the Labour right will dispense with further leadership challenges and move immediately to split the party and cast off Corbyn and his supporters.

Lots more cheaper more junior staff for the most important task of our generation with a work load that far outweighs the DCMS?

Still doesn't fit.

Do you remember this tweet from David Allen Green:

Child: "I want to back in time!"

Daft parent: "You can't."

Wise parent: "Go on then, try."

Also works for Brexit.

Perhaps it's a bit like that with Theresa May's 32 senior civil servants serving as the cardboard box and tin foil doled out to the hopeful child to make the time machine.,,

Although 32 senior civil servants does fit with StrangeSapphire's idea of 'Fudgit'.

Yes. And I don't suppose they are mutually exclusive.

Lots more cheaper more junior staff for the most important task of our generation with a work load that far outweighs the DCMS? Still doesn't fit.

I'm not saying it does. But then, not much about Brexit seems to me to 'fit'.

www.yahoo.com/news/embattled-trump-campaign-chairman-manafort-resigns-141609977.html
Trump's campaign chairman Manafort resigns over Ukraine corruption scandal which apparently could see him end up in jail.

It really is like UKIP on steroids isn't it?

notdavidtennant yes, but not under the leadership of Smith, I think? Or have I read it completely wrong?

He seems to be saying they are going to follow this plan outlined in the spectator, but I'm not sure whether he means the spectator leaked their plan, or if they are inspired by it and hadn't thought of it before.

kaija true, but in this case, the child is also saying that the parent has to make it happen for the child!