to ask has your life changed since brexit ?

[mrsfuzzy]

seems months ago since it all kicked off but only a few weeks in reality, wider society aside, has brexit changed your life a/ perhaps you've moved/in process of, changed work etc. for us nothing has changed but i'm interested in other mners [don't want to cause a punch up over the remains and leaves - that's been, gone and tired].

You can thank the remain campaign and the media for the increase in racism. Not the leave campaign. It was the remains/medias insistence that everyone voting leave was an idiotic racist bigot that fuelled a fire, that was merely a spark , by telling a small number of arseholes that everyone agreed with them WHEN THAT IS A LIE. Giving them a false sense that 52% of the population agree them and therefore creating these issues.

Of course they could have actually have tried listening to what people had to say, their real reasons for leaving (regardless of whether they agreed or not or whether the leavers ideas were based on experience and hearsay rather the data) and actually run a campaign for remain and the reason to remain, instead of just insulting people.

I find it funny that with all their superior intellect they they are unable to work out their part in this.

You can blame Farage for the racism - not the Remain campaign; he was and remains an out and out fascist, racist bigot. And when the chips are down he won't care about the working class people who support him. He'll be off with his moneyed pals.

BertrandRussell

You see before the referendum whenever anyone said anything about their experiences, ie anecdotes, that could not be proved with endless data and references and fact were basically told, on mn, to shut up, anecdote data. Ad infinitum. Their real life experiences didn't count as it did not fit in with the 'data'.

So they did. They shut up. Their life experiences didn't change, and they pretty much discovered that their stories were not important enough to beconsidered as relevant in the minds of the remainers. It didn't change their vote they just stopped saying anything.

So I do not understand why you suddenly want anecdotes. Are they suddenly no longer irrelevant. Do people's actual life experiences suddenly matter.

Ps... I actually think you are one of the brighter lights on mn and mostly agree with your posts. So not a dig. I just really want to understand.

yes, lost internship, several students have lost apprenticeships, etc. research I was involved in put on hold, and my brother and his family have lost so much money they are preparing to have their home repossessed.

and have witnessed shocking racism, and actually have several european friends who have been left afraid to leave their homes. One has lived here happily nearly 40 years

Of the five incidents of racism since the ref that have shocked me (and shocked the victims too) four were against black or Asian women, one was against a black teenage boy. My polish and Bulgarian friends are v very frightened but haven't experienced outright abuse.

Peregrina

No...the racism was there. Farage didn't make anyone racist and didn't 'turn' people into racist. And prior to the referendum we all knew about him and his views. What gave the racist a feeling of self righteousness resulting in increased racist attacks was being told by the media and remain campaign that 52% of the population agreed with them.

There have always been racist elements in this country and quite bad ones. My grandad told me that 30 years ago.

OK, you can blame Farage for making it acceptable to be openly racist. Yes, there certainly has been racism for years. My mixed race DIL took out British citizenship a few years ago because she was afraid of the rise of UKIP, but she says, it won't matter what your passport says, if the racists decide they don't like you.

The Remain campaign and the media did not make the country racist - never heard such nonsense.

The Leave campaign, with its outright racism - the famous poster of the Syrian refugees and the 'Go Home' nonsense - fuelled existing racism and made it acceptable.

Zac Goldsmith did exactly the same thing in his campaign for London mayor - and that's why he lost the election so resoundingly - Londoners won't take that kind of racist shit.

But most people voted to remain or leave off the back of much research, TV debates, reading articles, talking with friends etc. If everyone had just seen one poster and decided to leave or remain then yes, you could blame a pic of Syrian refugees for inciting a rise in racism.

However, like others, I believe that telling racists that they are in the company of 52% of the country is what has given them the false confidence to speak out.

If remain voters had listened to the many and varied reasons people had voted to leave, rather than tar them all with the racist brush because it suits them to dismiss 52% of the country as idiotic bigots, the very small minority of racists wouldn't suddenly feel like they are the majority.

The vitriolic bile spewed by remainers towards anyone who dared to vote differently to them has silenced many leave voters - I for one haven't told any of my friends and family that I voted leave due to their nasty attitudes about it on FB etc. and I know of at least 15 other leave voters who are sensible and informed and yet haven't gone around shouting about it because they would just get called a racist. It's ridiculous that remain voters won't accept the part they have played in the tidal turn in attitudes to racism.

When non-racists daren't speak out publicly because they know they will be abused by the very people who claim to be tolerant and liberal something has gone very wrong.

I think it was wrong to hold a ref, I think farage is a shit and the leave campaign a disgrace but ultimately what it boiled down to was the British people's hatred of foreigners led them to ignore the fact that immigrants are massive net contributors, to ignore the economic arguments, to ignore the peace and security arguments and to vote out.

And yes I know the brexiters on mumsnet prefer to dress it up as 'class struggle' or 'we'd rather be poor and free than in a superstate' but in the real world, approx 80% of brexits voted due to immigration - (in my world 100% did.)

Ds looks 'foreign' and has a foreign name- do you know before last month, it never even occurred to me that people wouldn't like him? That's how naive I was!

Londoners won't take racism - tell that to the people living in London that I know of that have been subject to racist abuse in London by Londoners in the last few weeks.

Red buses, special treatment and loads of money doesn't mean that London is full of lovely people.

DH and I are non EU migrants to the UK and we haven't experienced any increase in racism, and none of my foreign-born friends here have either. We're in London though, in an area that was 80% remain. Financially we're very slightly better off as DH gets some of his salary in US$. But then we're going on holiday to an EU country in a couple of weeks and will have to spend more. I've noticed a lot of asking price reductions on Rightmove but that doesn't affect us directly as we have no plans to move. I don't expect any Brexit-related job losses will affect DH's employment or mine due to our industries.

"So I do not understand why you suddenly want anecdotes. Are they suddenly no longer irrelevant. Do people's actual life experiences suddenly matter."
Of course people's life experiences matter. But all the negative things that appear to have already happened to people since the vote are being dismissed by leavers as anecdote. I just would have thought that there would be some positive anecdotes to balance the negative. But I have not heard a single one.

Holiday more expensive, wish I could have paid it in full when I booked it!

Share save scheme -literally lost a potential 3K! But of course this could go up again and it was never certain.

I voted remain but I can see there was an (non racist) argument for leaving.

Worried about our jobs mainly.

Of course any positives will take a long time to happen. Trade agreements take years to organise so there will be a long period of time when things are uncertain. I do think we will be OK in the long term economically but I am worried about the racist aspect all this seems to have uncovered. I am really worried a far right govt will get in here and am worried about Trump getting in in the USA. It is almost like any lessons learnt from history are being forgotten.

I suppose the fact that there are one or two posters who've said that they're paid in whole or in part in US$ so they've seen a financial benefit.

So one or two people have seen a positive effect - even if over all they disagreed with Leave.

Peppa I am sorry that you feel angry that racism has "suddenly" hit the headlines. I am an ethnic minority too, and have experienced racist (and disturbingly sexual - there's something about being a small East Asian female that seems to set some people off) incidents over the years. I agree that it was a bad thing that decent, non-racist people preferred to pretend all was fine. Where we diverge is that I think it is nevertheless bloody awful that there is an increase in racism post-referendum. It's a bad thing. And the media should be making a big deal of it.

As for the suggestion that Remain is to blame for this . Usually any hint that Leave voters were in any way less than completely in possession of full facts and incisive intelligence and control of their actions would result in howls of outrage. But they just can't help laminating cards with "vermin" on them and posting them through letterboxes? Perhaps their weak little arms were physically twisted by the same Remainers who are deliberately destroying the economy just so they can say "I told you so"?

Yes. Lots of things.

Small, but cumulative and not for the better.
Its the tip of the iceberg unfortunately.

I have a hollow laugh at the people on this thread saying nothing has changed. I think just proves a few things in itself.

Orders pulled, redundancies, threats of job losses. Not a surprise.

Charming printed notes scattered in the bus yesterday (not sure if can post the snap I took if such racist crap). Along the lines of 15million people voted to chuck all the foreign scum out of the county and calls to start sending people home. With a nice union flag on the back and website URL.

However, like others, I believe that telling racists that they are in the company of 52% of the country is what has given them the false confidence to speak out.

No, it's the fact that a racist, xenophobic campaign won that has given them confidence. Too many leave voters seem to think that now the vote is won foreigners will leave. And that's entirely the Leave campaign's fault.

Londoners won't take racism - tell that to the people living in London that I know of that have been subject to racist abuse in London by Londoners in the last few weeks

I said they won't take 'racist shit' in a campaign for mayor - Zac nuked his own campaign by trying to stoke racism - and it backfired. The Leave campaign didn't convince London either.

I'd hardly think it needs pointing out that London is a huge city and I am not claiming that every single resident is non-racist. There are Leave voters here, they're just a minority.

Racist graffiti scratched into the back door at work (a first). Colleagues witnessing racism directly linked to Brexit i.e. 'well, with the Brexit vote you lot are out of here anyway', that kind of thing. This is in London, in one of the borough's that voted most heavily in favour of remain.

DH's firm looking at making redundancies due to a big drop-off in business since the vote.

Obviously there's the small scale stuff, holidays being more expensive etc but we're lucky to be able to still afford ours.

Mostly though, I just feel there's been a really unpleasant shift in mood and attitudes.