Westminstenders Continues. Boris is having a bad week. Corbyn resists. Its gonna be a long summer.

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD ELEVEN

The dust is beginning to settle and the storm has abated. At least for the moment. The summer is about to start, and so there may be a break in proceeding.

May has had quite a first week both here and abroad.

The ground has not stopped shaking from the political ripples abroad. Made PM on Weds, Nice on Thursday and a failed coup in Turkey on Friday. The political landscape has changed once again.

At home she first cleared out the Govians and called for loyalty. She channelled the ghost of Maggie at the despatch box. She started the process of trying to make friends with Scots, Germans and the French. She is apparently now Merkel's bestie. Sturgeon is already ousted from that position after just days.

Boris, meanwhile has been rinsed by everyone he speaks to because of what he's said in the past. He's also given up his chickfeed job. Oh the hardship.

Now he looking like he's starting to regret deciding to play with the grown up. He's been trying - and it would seem, largely failing - at sucking up to the Americans. There's still no apology, but he has admitted that he has a list that is so long that he's lost track of what he needs to apologise for. I bet he's wishing for his playmates, Dave and George to come back.

Otherwise life carries on as normal, well this alternate new version of normal, with parliament breaking for the summer today. Don't worry the Martian landing is scheduled for a week Tuesday.

UKIP's polling seems to have dropped back post referendum, and things have gone rather quiet. Wolfe, Etheridge, Duffy and Arnott are all standing (Who? When did that happen? Yeah quite. Without Farage they disappeared). They plan to reform and make an assault on seats in the Labour heartlands of the provisional NW, Midlands and NE at the next general election. Hustings in August, new leader announced Sept 15th. Looks of thinly and not so thinly veiled racism to look forward to there then. The Daily Mail best make sure it upgrades its servers in time.

The Labour contest grinds on like a war of attrition. Stalking horse Angela fell at the first fence as Owen Smith (that's the MP not the journalist everyone including the media!) wins the dream unity candidate ticket for an apparent hiding to nothing against the steely stubbornness of Corbyn. Everyone with a pulse is starting to loose the will to live with it all.

The Lib Dems, have a Spokesman for Remain. Old Cleggy's back! Otherwise they seem to have been trying to do a deluded impression of the opposition party. Though with 8 MPs they aren't doing much better or worse than Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet atm.

The Green are having a leadership battle too. It must be very civilised - I've heard not a word about it. Lucas tried to get a vote about PR though the Commons. It failed. Again.

There also is a cross party idea to set up a new iniative of a progressive movement to champion Europe, which seems to be gaining some traction. It may also double as a support group for anyone who thinks the world has gone a bit nuts lately at this rate.

The SNP are pissed off, as they vow differently on everything and once again they feel that Trident has been imposed on them. Sturgeon had a good meeting with May though, and apparently the Union must remain and Scotland holds the key to the future. Though we don't know the key to which door that is - Braveheart or Brave New World.

The Republic of Ireland is making noises about a referendum about Irish Unity, but beyond that nothing about NI has really been on the radar. May is supposed to go visiting soon.

And the Welsh? Baaaaa who cares about the welsh? They made the mistake of voting Leave as well as the English and now have been forgotten, consigned to political irrelevance forever.

Article 50 has been pushed back officially until the New Year, with a first legal hearing on how to activate it due no sooner than the 3rd week in October. Leaving the EU legally will now be no earlier than 2019.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2685902-Westminstenders-Contines-Boris-outmaneovered-everyone-Now-War-and-Peace?pg=1 Previous Thread TEN

it certainly became a much bigger and much longer lasting story as a result of his inability to STFU

No argument here

howabout personally I'm not keen on the American sacralisation of their armed forces. Definitely a weird cultural thing from my perspective - in France if you wrote that sort of article about the need to say "thank you" to military people, shake their hand, smile at them, etc, you'd be viewed by most people as an extreme right-wing lunatic. (Which I wholly realise is not the case in the US, or probably in the UK)

Respecting military families from all political sides is the same as respecting anyone else - taking them seriously, listening to their experiences, listening to what they have to say.

Absolutely unbelieveable to hear people complaining about the Brexit campaign's creative use of the funding rules. The collective amnesia regarding the misuse of the "government" machine by the Remain side is astounding.

Howabout, I actually agree. HOWEVER the point here is about the ability to launch and how likely a legal challenge / prosecution to Brexit on these grounds is.

If its possible, then it becomes ANOTHER obstacle for the government to deal with before it can be done. In that process, it may well throw up the question of the Remain campaigns misuse of funding (and indeed get thrown out of court as a result). The thing is, even that would create a delay to the Brexit timetable rather than it being a challenge to its legitimacy. Delay, delay, delay is something that some people are actively looking to do with the idea that the further the pebble gets kicked the less likely Brexit is. Personally, I think the wisdom of this is questionable in the best interests of the country and I think there are inherent dangers in doing so (relating to this Brexit blank cheque ideology).

That said, I do think that there is a legitimate question to democratic process and election funding that is ongoing. There are questions over the 2015 election and there are calls from the likes of Paddy Ashdown to look at how party campaigns are funded and to think about switching to a system like that in Europe, where it is much more strictly controlled and there is no donor system. It shouldn't be the case that we have Arron Banks buying his way into politics. It shouldn't be the case that the Labour Party case got dragged to court in another twist because a donor wanted to get Corbyn off the ballot when none of the NEC or the MPs wanted that action and regarded it as unhelpful. (There are plenty of other examples, but these two are the recent ones that stand out). There have been a number of questions about whether the UK is really a democracy or actually a plutocracy (the whole elites debate ultimately springs from this) and it does need to be properly addressed to help restore trust in government in this country.

I think it is a very legitimate wider question to be asking if criminal actions are taking place. And as you rightly point out, its not restricted to Leave. We may well not have had a referendum at all if abuses like this had not been regarded as fair game.

Agree with all of that Red also not forgetting the irregularities surrounding the Tory GE campaign. I have my doubts about Paddy Ashdown's new pressure group and its approach to funding and influence though.

Thank you Pattypenguin, I'm sure you're right about the quote being typical old-style use of the word 'men' to mean 'people'.
It makes me silently laugh sometimes about how this usage selectively implicates men only in dubious things!
For example this Confucius quote, particularly topical today when discussing Trump and how to respect military families:
'Without feelings of respect, what is there to distinguish men from beasts?'

Sorry folks, just my SOH!

I'd have a little bit more respect for that IJR article about how respect Service personnel if they hadn't used Dubya as the example, given that he had to been so determined to finish off his "Daddy's" War (as proven in the Chilcot Report) and protecting the the USA from the threat of the PetroEuro.

He's the reason that so many of those people he is photographed "supporting" are in the position they're in - and a large part of the reason for the mess the world is in now as he stoked the fires in the Middle East

This made me laugh this morning:

Kaija, I love it! (Although not so funny when you realise the truth in it.)

kaija. It forgot cricket and spinster aunts cycling to tea with the vicar but otherwise seems pretty comprehensive.

infacts.org/boffin-braindrain-risks-britains-ascendancy/

I've been worried about disastrous implications for science/ research following Brexit. According to the 'Disruption' paragraph in this article, it's already happening.

It would be funny if it weren't so true

It missed out returning to pounds and ounces

Brexit's criminal use of funds should, in my opinion, never, ever be permitted to become 'normalised' (by saying 'they're all like that).
The Brexit campaign was a profound undermining of democratic norms (of discursive truth, of funding) on a scale not seen before and not properly understood at the time.
It is really, really important we do not allow ourselves to be anaesthetised to that.

I can well believe that the brain drain is happening. Both of my children work in scientific and medical research environments, and would be able to get jobs elsewhere. I almost regard it as a matter of when, not if. So we can afford to lose well educated young people, can we?

I don't know whether this is good news or not, but breaking news is that UKIP's Steve Woolfe is ineligible to be on the ballot for leader.

Lots of stuff about the Bank of England having no option but to cut interest rates tomorrow. I'm sure that we'll be sick of that pretty quick, so I'm not going to link to any of that today at least. I expect the cut to be bigger than expected though.

politicalscrapbook.net/2016/08/european-have-become-more-in-favour-of-staying-in-the-eu-after-brexit-not-less/
Europe becoming more pro-EU.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-leadership-vote-carnage-nec-8549771#ICID=sharebar_twitter
The UKIP 'coup'. Woolfe not on the ballot.

order-order.com/2016/08/03/faragists-vow-declare-war-ukip/
Faragists threaten all out war.

Alex Wickham ‏@WikiGuido
Pro-Farage/Woolfe UKIP source: There will be an Extraordinary General Meeting and the NEC will be abolished.

indy100.independent.co.uk/article/where-europe-is-most-and-least-innovative-in-6-maps--WyeiYv0SpLW
Innovation map of Europe. That's the M4 corridor then.

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2016-07-06/42039/
Asked by Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham)
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, whether his Department has taken legal advice on whether the European Communities Act 1972 can be repealed by Royal Prerogative.
It was answered yesterday. Note here, that they a) didn't actually answer the question b) didn't refer it to the Brexit Department

Apparently there is a 'comprehensive Brexit plan in existence' here:
www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=80999
Apparently 'It's the only open source and longest running Brexit plan, yes, not perfect but well researched & multi stage'
I've not had chance to look at in any detail. Its long. On the very long twitter thread it was on, someone was saying that Banks and Cummings had rejected it for some reason. I didn't really understand what they were saying.

A senior civil servant has made a speech for the Institute for Government about the workload they have and their capacity to deliver Brexit. The speech by the Controller and Auditor General, Sir Amyas Morse KCB, of the National Audit Office (NAO)Transcript
here
Here is a very telling quote:
And later this year the NAO will publish a study on civil service capability. The aim for this study is to answer the following question: ‘Does government have a coherent plan for closing the current ‘capability gap’?
This is before counting Brexit - it says its over committed and couldn't handle the demands of universal credit. A must read.

www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2016/news/dyson-at-large-lets-stop-asking-readers-to-pay-for-old-news/
What the future of news print must be.
I have to say this is bang on. Over the last few weeks its become increasingly obvious that I can go to twitter and get stuff from news agencies before it reaches the mass media - and that this is exactly where they are getting everything thing from too.

www.politico.com/story/2016/08/trump-new-york-times-226546
Trump bans press he thinks "Don't write good". Obviously a healthy sign.

www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/us/politics/trump-university-case.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
Trump University case allowed to go ahead. It is about whether Trump had “knowingly participated in a scheme to defraud.”. Of course this is another healthy sign.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/02/republicans-never-trump-tipping-point-support?CMP=twt_gu
Why Republican are abandoning Trump. The tipping point.

I also have my doubts about what the Paddy Ashdown and his crew can achieve. Without Labour support (ha!) its pretty dead in the water as a fringe idea.

Lots of interesting stuff...

If I were running the Brexit department, my plan would be to transition about 90% of the existing EU regs into domestic law completely unchanged. 5% would be repealed or watered down; 5% would be made more stringent. I would choose the 10% very carefully, to include some totemic issues (I'd make it legal to sell in lbs and oz provided the price per kilo was also displayed prominently, for example) and some where there are UK specific advantages to doing things in a very different way (can't think of any egs but am sure there must be some!!)

Single biggest thing to increase the civil service capacity, IMHO? Stop all the "stuff" that distracts and sucks up capacity from delivery: no new performance management systems; accept that there is a mis-match between things like internal Comms systems and live with it for the next 3-5 years etcetcetc

Michael Crick ‏@MichaelLCrick · 2m2 minutes ago
Steven Woolfe statement: "Highly confidential information about me held in party documents has been leaked to the press."

Three members of the UKIP NEC have resigned in protest.

Popcorn anyone?

it's fun to watch a party go into meltdown, when it's not Labour

If I were running the Brexit department, my plan would be to

see if I was able to emigrate rather rapidly.

Morning Joe ‏@Morning_Joe · 1h1 hour ago
Watch: What are some major concerns about Trump's handling of national security? Hayden and #morningjoe weigh in.
If you are on twitter, watch this and be careful about your jaw dropping on the floor.
Its about nukes.

Sweep stake time: When will Farage become UKIP leader? Again.

www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-idUSKCN10E1GL?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social
According to one news report, the Republican National Committee is looking at its options in case Trump drops out. RNC Chairman Reince Priebus is furious about the dispute with the Khans and has spoken with Trump repeatedly asking him to change course, ABC News reported Wednesday.
Oooh it looks like the Americans are into party civil war too.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p043gg1j?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=thetodayprogramme&ns_source=facebook
Donald Trump 'is psychologically unbalanced'

Donald Trump is "out of control" according to Dr Jan Halper-Hayes, worldwide vice-president of Republicans Overseas.

Dr Halper-Hayes, who has previously defended Mr Trump, told Justin Webb that she was "very concerned" about the psychological state of the presidential nominee.

It said senior officials are looking into how to replace Trump on the Republican ticket for the Nov. 8 election. The Trump campaign had no immediate comment on the report.
No Shit.

www.politico.com/story/2016/08/never-donald-trump-republicans-226537#ixzz4GGeruiZq
Beau Corell, a Virginia Republican and prominent Trump critic, said he’s working with his former “Free the Delegates” allies to fight local Republican parties that are empowered to marginalize conservatives who refuse to support Trump. Several states, including Virginia, he said, include mechanisms in party rules that permit the party to eject members who publicly speak against their nominee, sometimes for years.
Say what is the 1st Amendment?
We don't appear to have this problem in the UK.

No wonder people are fucked off with democracy. The UK and US are proving themselves to be utterly crap at it.

Another opinion piece on whether parliament could / should stop Brexit

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/articles/philosopher_ac_grayling_on_why_parliament_must_resist_article_50_1_4635481

Olemmaswimple An entire school system has been educating our young people sensible and simple metric values since I went to school in what my children term as Victorian times, or at least pre EU, and very much appreciate that sums involving 16s and 14s are just put on exam papers for a bit of extra challenge not an everyday hassle. So why on earth go to the bother and cost to government and retailers to please a bunch of old even older than me people's need for nostalgia. I assume cookbook publishers would ignore it except for books serving the niche market for rose tinted nostalgia. The glory days of British gastronomy, the same sort of meat and two veg for dinner on each day of the week, apart from fish on Friday. As far as I am concerned the tedium of that sums up UKIPs British values. I remember the utter joy of the first Vesta Chop Suey and Curry, and Spag Bog taking over from Shepherds pie on Tuesday's. Thank god for immigration and Curry, Pasta, Pizza, Chilli, Chillies, Herbs......... and living in a country where Chinese stir fry can knock Chicken Tikka Masala off the top spot as Britains favourite dish.

You forget Chicken in a Basket. The highlight of a pub meal out in the early 70s.

I remember when the first Chinese Restaurant opened in my town in the early 60s. Ah yes, those were the days . In fact though, living in a small town, where there was very little to do, and you couldn't get into pubs because everyone knew everyone, so they knew how old you were, because you were a couple of months younger than "our so and so, who's only 16", then the Chinese was the place to go for a night out!

I remember shortly after my grandad died in 1990, my lovely granny came to stay for a few weeks, nominally to look after us.

I suggested spag bol for dinner on the third night she was there and she just looked terrified. For the 45 years of her married life, she'd cooked some variation of meat, two veg, potato and pie and custard for pudding.

We made spag bol together and she loved it. She said it tasted like freedom!

Why don't we go the whole hog and go back to guineas pounds, shilling and pence?!

Re the discussion on whether the BBC was "too neutral", the Remain side misused the government machine, etc...

My friend is a civil servant (and a Remain voter), and I know that she was not allowed to post anything on FB / twitter that gave away her opinion on the subject of the referendum.

Do you think that is completely sensible and appropriate? Or another example of the Remain voters staying silent while the Leave voters were more vocal?