To feel really positive about leaving the EU

[kitty1976]

I know there has been lots of fear stories but in a few weeks since the vote we have managed to get a new PM who seems more than capable and we are now in control of our destiny without being ruled by an unelected and unaccountable EU. The EU has for a long time been a basket case and has condemned much of the youth of Southern Europe to decades of unemployment, it's a relief to be out. Do remember we are now free to negotiate our own trade deals with the rest of the world and most countries are not in the EU and seem to do well. There have been so many fear stories which have been peddled by self interest. I wonder in 5 years time how many remainers will be asking to rejoin the EU!!

Valentine,

I find it irritating that the remainers assumes all leavers are idiots. There is very little real 'evidence' one way or the other. I am sorry but, on the whole, I do discount economists as experts when it comes to forecasting. That does not mean that they do not have expertise but merely that economics has not (yet?) passed the test of forecasting any more accurately than laypeople. There is lots of evidence for this which I am happy to cite.

As for the science community, granted the great majority do want to keep the status quo. However there are some quite eminent scientists on the other side of the debate, for example:

scientistsforbritain.uk/wordpress/?page_id=54

Are the scientists mentioned above idiots or do they just have another opinion? If so, why is their opinion less valid?

We really have no idea whether Brexit will be a net benefit or disbenefit for the UK and we won't for a while.

larry
I have written elsewhere. It takes a lot of sacrifice to be and stay a scientist. It's nearly never the money for an academic.
Tell me: how come all the academic cities of uk voted absolutely landslide Remain???

And no, when people don't exclusively work for money, they shouldn't be classified into people who want to keep status quo. It's actually very insulting to assume they want status quo to be as it is because academics are usually the front liners of any big revolution. How did you come to that conclusion?

Valentine,

I agree that the majority of academics wanted to remain. However, there was a minority that did not. I understand that it is not about the money. However, I do feel there is a degree of naivety among academics about the disadvantages of the current set up and also a degree of fear of the unknown. Being academically smart does not immunise you from either of the above.

Valentine,

Remain is per se the status quo! How can that be insulting?!

However, I do feel there is a degree of naivety among academics about the disadvantages of the current set up and also a degree of fear of the unknown.

Is that the cue for Remain voters to screech "HOW DARE YOU CALL ALL XYZ STUPID PLEBIAN SCUM"?

larrygrylls

Those people remind me of the small number of scientists that deny the existence of Climate Change, and who the Republicans conveniently find every now and then...

As larry brought up the minority pro-Brexit scientist group I thought I would call attention to this from the Independent article I linked to above:

"This is so important to British science that the pro-Brexit Scientists for Britain refused to even contemplate not being able to access the funding, suggesting that this would be “Armageddon” for the research community."

So they're pro-Brexit by effectively going LALALALA it's going to be fine .

We really have no idea whether Brexit will be a net benefit or disbenefit for the UK and we won't for a while.

And yet still we blundered forward with no plan in place and following the most shockingly dishonest political campaign in our history. Don't you understand that it's this attitude that remainers have a problem with?

The remainers equally have no plan for the inevitable collapse of the eirozone.

When I looked at Scientists for Britain, I was struck that they are mostly retired. Anyway, just because 10 scientists say Brexit is a good idea doesn't match up to 1000s of academics, medics, engineers & scientists who are dismayed.

Underpar -- well may be she would prefer to go to an English University - we do have some of the best in the world or have you forgotten that or may be she could go to one in Romania or Lithuania or Poland or Hungary but probably not I suspect . You Remains just want to cherry pick and choose the richer parts of Europe , I wonder how many of our 16/24 year olds will be rushing to work in any of the above countries mentioned , not many I guess - funny that isn't it.

Yeeeoooo - my sentiments entirely - just what I think - go Britain go.

Don't have to I know quite a few young people, both from the UK and America who have studied in Eastern European countries. In fact they are among the many frustrated that those opportunities will be closed to students in future. Perhaps if you had yourself studied in Eastern Europe you would understand why? Why do you assume that they wouldn't want to study in those countries?

And I also know a lot of people born here but of polish extraction who have gone back to work in Poland. I assume you don't know anyone who has studied or worked in Easter Europe who might have in any way enlightened you on why that might be and messed with your easy stereotypes?

Thanks for your thoughts maki79 .

maki Do you know anything about the developing economies in Africa, South America and, not sure why you left them out, Asia. Many of the poorest African South American and Asian countries are now de facto economic colonies of China. Travel there and the infrastructure, the roads, buses, trains will be being delivered by China who need the natural resources and cheap labour to sustain their own growth. The BRIC countries are of course the fastest growing economies in the world and they look upon Brexit as a great opportunity.

But when I have travelled in some of the poorest countries on the planet, like Cambodia, which many of the younger generation don't even realise was left by genocide without the teachers and doctors that a functioning society needs, as well as the miles of Chinese factories exploiting the cheap labour and the horrendous sex tourism industry encouraged by some of the less savoury aspects of Asian culture (old men believe a young girls virginity will bring them vigour so they will pay up to $600US for it, a fortune to many Cambodian families, some of whom only strive by living on rubbish tops) I have seen the EU logo on so many really worthwhile development projects. It would be tough to crack the Chinese stronghold on their economy, the same goes for a lot of Africa and South America but these projects born out of shared European values are helping to establish an alternative vision for the people of those countries. I am so sad that we will not be a part of that project, indeed now have a development minister who thinks we should cut the budget for such aid altogether.

Just one example where being part of a regional block that shares the same values can really make a difference to the world as well as benefit us economically and politically.

Here's one project whose vehicles and restaurants all prominently bear the EU logo we will no longer be a part of. www.friends-international.org

Whatwould - how many ? and why wouldn't some Polish people return to the place where I imagine most of their family are and a culture that they are familiar with , just the same as the 40% of British emigrants who return from Australia. The UK has had massive amounts of people coming from the poorer parts of Europe , I doubt very much that the eastern parts will have had a reciprocal amount from the richer parts of Europe , just a thought.
Are these students that you know going to these poorer countries because they are taking advantage of the cheaper fees and costs of living thereby denying a local student a place ? and as for stereotyping - stones and glass houses come to mind.

No they are not travelling to Eastern European countries to study because of cheaper fees but because it is an opportunity to live in and learn about another European culture, they do have strong cultures and rich histories, their old towns are not just the venue for binge drinking UK stag parties.....

And my friends who moved to Poland grew up in Ealing, Rochdale and Bradford where their families moved post World War 2, all have very established Polish communities that enriched my life growing up alongside them . Their knowledge of Polish history and Culture was gained in Polish Clubs and other centres of their community, just like mine, and their knowledge of my Irish cultural inheritance came about in the same way. As Jo Cox said we have more in common than sets us apart.

Whatwould - LOL at your daughter having a string of As - I had a feeling she would have . By the way I come from a family of academics, not that it should make any difference to you or any one else. Please do not speak to me in such a condescending manner, I wonder if you would speak to a Polish person in such a way , I guess you would not dare to. I do not know of any one studying in the eastern bloc , no , on that you are right but I do have friends , neighbours and in-laws from ALL parts of the world and I embrace different cultures but it does not mean that I want or need to be part of a massive European state.

As to denying a place to local students perhaps you need to go on the Higher Education threads to understand that the very high standard of EU students applying to study Economics and other subjects, particularly from Eastern Europe, has vastly increased the standard of the students on top courses in the UK. As others have said the interchange strengthens all EU universities and we risk losing that. The London universities particularly benefit.

donthaveto I am sorry if you perceive correcting your misperceptions about Higher Education is being condescending. It is just that what you are saying does not chime at all with the experience of my children and their peers.

What massive European state? I voted to remain in a regional economic and political bloc, it is highly unlikely that with 27 members having a veto it would have ever evolved into a single state, whatever a particular faction might have advocated.

Whatwould - well it would would it not because the British are all so thick are they not. As for embracing other cultures so so much - just why? - how does it really improve your life so much? - ok so you learn about other cultures - why do you need to we are all the same human beings are the same wherever they live. Just because you want live in some other country does not make you a better person than me - nor a more enlightened one . How much do you know about a person with severe Autism for example or dementia or serious mental illness? Do your journeys across the world give you much enlightenment on these topics.
As for Euro logos across the world have never heard of Save The Children or UNICEF or British Red Cross.