Does anyone else find themselves getting more sympathetic to the other side

[whydidhesaythat]

I don't know if this is just another stage in the cycle of grief but I'm starting to feel that:

Those of us who were doing very nicely out of Europe thank you ignored those who didn't

EU money can go into buildings but that's not the same thing as helping people

People outside the urban centres felt the EU was just another siphon of power away from them

London patronises the regions

Not everyone got to go on a gap year to a European country so why should they be bothered about my kids having one?

There actually is a non racist anti immigration argument

I'm not saying any of this right, it may just be another reaction....but does anyone else find themselves empathising with the other side more than they did?

I think , based on what I've read here since June 24, the leave vote won as the majority of people believed the EU was responsible for things that the government in this country actually introduced, and now they are discovering what the EU actually did, they are a bit dumbfounded

I have to say I thought we were already in the middle of a 'hard libertarian free market thingy'. And in my understanding is that we will move even more to the right, seeing that yoour 'new' PM is even more to the right than DC.

Problem of course is that that approach is quite bad for all the 'weaker members of the society' as explained. Y the latest UN report on the UK
Have a read here

A lot of the things I have read on this thread actually go hand in hand with the comments made by the UN. And that the defect out the UK governemnt policies, not the EU.

It's not leave voters responsibility to know how long it will take to improve - that is why we have a government.

well the government put the responsibility for the vote onto the voters, so I would say it is the leave voters who should have a clue what will happen next as they voted for that

The VAT thing, it was on Tampons before we joined the EU, just the rules are that you can't remove VAT from products once it has been put on it. Or that is my reading of it.

"It's not leave voters responsibility to know how long it will take to improve - that is why we have a government."

Excuse me????????

Not the old 'british people wont do the jobs' argument again! Who did them before EU immigration then? I know many british people in my area who work and train for Jobs in agriculture, in fact our local secondary school even offers a GCSE in agricultural studies so imo this shows that there is a strong desire to work and form careers in these sectors. Previously, I had british student friends who picked fruit and worked in local food factories and I myself have worked in many catering/service jobs over the years . 10 years ago in my area (heavy food/agriculture/manufacturing industry) these jobs were filled with mostly British people. Now they are not. Whether or not immigration is a reason for voting out (and in my case it wasnt) it is undeniable fact that it has changed the landscape for low skilled or working class british voters and Jobs in these sectors paying a living wage are very difficult to find now, because many migrants are able to work for less by living in multiple occupancy temporary conditions that are unsuitable for many british families/individuals . Their voices were not heard and they must feel beyond frustrated, agreeing/disagreeing with them on whether or not they voted the right way for the right reasons and or whether brexit will make any difference at all is one thing. But as a society we must stop belittling people who have these viewpoints and experiences because to them, they are very real. They are not all racists and just because they cannot afford higher education does not make them stupid. They are real people, with real voices and real worries.

I am unwell today so if my post seems rambly or goady, thats not my intention, but hopefully you get the gist...

As Bertrand said earlier, I am desperate o be proved wrong. I would love the UK to become a vibrant economy with all the benefits of the EU without having to pay in. I would love it if "taking back control" vastly improves the lives of people in the UK. Please, Leavers, in five years time, please please prove me wrong.

Bananas?

Before everyone corrects me I'm well aware of the myth, and that bendy bananas are not banned, but the very fact that there are people spending time and money making rules about classes of banana is a bit absurd. Likewise household appliances, jams, the insistence on the metric system even where it's counter-intuitive.

No, these things aren't serious. They're 'petty and unnecessary,' just as I said. If I'd said I'd voted Leave solely based on bananas and the tampon tax, then I'd deserve to be heavily criticised! But they're the 'silly regulations' as opposed to important laws protecting workers. If my only issues with the EU were these things, I'd have been happy to Remain.

If I can resort to personal example again, my relatives had to replace all their 240v tools with 110v ones because of EU legislation. I'm not knowledgeable in this area, but they are, and told me it's unnecessary and expensive. My dad had to go on a training/health and safety course about how to safely climb ladders and scaffolding, which he's been doing without incident for about 40 years. Again, not comparable to serious issues, but petty and unnecessary (and in the case of the tools, possibly detrimental to workers who didn't have the funds to just go out and buy new ones - there are converters, but most building sites preferred workers to actually have the 110v tools).

I feel as though I'm being misrepresented as saying these petty things are either more important than wider socioeconomic concerns, or the main reason I wanted to leave. I'm not - I'm just answering a question. For the main reasons, see my lengthy post above ;)

Years, rather than months.

I actually think it is extremely important that food is well regulated cheque.

The banana things makes my ears smoke.

So you are essentially saying that the EU is a 'nanny state' and you object?

110v ones because of EU legislation

Intriguing. Was a reason provided? AFAIK other EU countries use a 230V mains voltage, i.e. essentially identical to ours.

It may appear ridiculous and unnecessary to people who don't work with regs, but the harmonisation of regulations across member states removes a lot of barriers and makes trading easier. You might not think that bananas need to be specified - but once you have to draw up a contract for the supply of large quantities of bananas, a rule of what is classed as acceptable quality for the purposes of the contract makes life easier. And no one is hurt in the process. Yep, a lot is not right with the regs and they need continuous improvement, but that's just a fact of life really, not a reason to abandon them altogether. They're there to protect workers, consumers, the environment. It's a good thing!

Protests agains more energy efficient kettles or vacuums just show that people have not even looked at what they're protesting against.

And re the tampon tax - it was simply a matter of pointing to which body needed to be lobbied to remove it. It's not as if the EU has put up a hard fight, there was just a process to be followed.

I am so glad Op you have voiced such a reasonable comment ...like many l was truly appalled by the vicious behaviors by both sides in the immediate aftermath...

Any halfway decent Leaver should have stayed quiet, and any halfway decent Remainer should have contained their vitriol......the appalling insults were disgusting along with the vile racist comments.

Of course it is the moderate majority on both sides of the argument that do stay quiet, and only the minority who make the noise and create huge extra angst...sadly they are the ones we hear daily.

Standardized regulations across borders is a good idea that makes trading easier- not harder. And health and safety legislation is a good thing not a bad thing. Your father may not have fallen off his ladder in 40 years but plenty of others have.

And more energy efficient domestic appliances is a good thing, not a bad thing.

It's all part of the anti EU looking glass world. The narrative of plucky little Britain ploughing its own furr

Sorry ploughing its own furrow contra mundum.

110v ones because of EU legislation

Is this one of those 'blame the EU' myths? Out of curiosity I found a list of voltages used world wide, and if anything, this seems to be nearest to an American standard. It's highly unlikely that the EU would have introduced this, but if anyone can produce which regulation governed it, I would be happy to stand corrected.

Yes, I object to the 'nanny state,' and authoritarianism in general whether it comes from the EU or UK government.

Elements, as I said, this is something I've been told by others who were affected by it, so I don't know the details, sorry. (Is it a 'blame the EU myth'? I assumed that the people who told me knew what they were talking about, but maybe not. Serious question.) I was trying to answer Bertrand's question about petty regulations, after I differentiated between them and ones which are very necessary to protect workers' rights. I think most of us will agree that the EU has both kinds, even if we might not set the dividing line in exactly the same place. The same is likely true of domestic law, but there's more scope for changing that.

I don't really want to go down the route of debating the necessity or otherwise of individual regulations, though, as my voting decision wasn't based on them - even if I agreed in practice with every single regulation passed by the EU I'd still have voted to leave.

Cancelly ah yes, that old metruic system that si SOOOO bad.
IOur plumber was going on about it saying he was hoping that out of the EU, we could finally go back to a 'proper' measurement system in inches etc...

Except that 1- the metric system has nothing to do with the EU. It was implemented before that in 1970s
2- This is the international measurement system. And the reaosn to use it is that it helps everyone using similar gauges. That is products are standardised all over the world, allowing for cheaper prices and to be able to use products from different countries.
3- Same plumber did recognised that he would be struggling to guive any precise measurements in imprial measures (eg 2mm etc...)
4- That's of course wo even mentioning people who working in international companies, the ones who are exporting or importing etc... You know just a nice system that everyone else is using and that allows a company her to buy parts in India to assemble them ebfore exportig them again....

As for being countra intuitive ... It is only so because people have been resisting the new system. It's like when you go abroad and use a different currency. You start by calculating the exchange rate all the time to convert to your 'own' currency until it becomes so normal that you just don't. The ore people will use the metric system, the more normal it becomes.
Fwiw, my dcs who have only use metric at school find the inches really weird and a pain in the arse. The stuff you only do because you have to.
Habit really.

my relatives had to replace all their 240v tools with 110v ones because of EU legislation
I suspect your relatives are wrong. All domestics tools sold in the UK are working on 230/240V, the power arriving at all the sockets in every single house in the UK.
The US and a few other countries use 110V

Cancelly

I grew up in Germany. DH is British. The UK is FAR MORE of a nanny state than the EU. You can see that in the people from a very young age!

I was shocked to figure out that virtually everyone who applied to my uni in the UK had substantial help from parents/teachers filling out UCAS forms and that more help is needed if you applied to Oxbridge.

NO ONE got helped by teachers in my school to apply to uni. That wasn't in their remit! I myself applied to study in the UK at 18 without getting any help at all!

When DH went to Germany, he was surprised at the lax rules that in the UK would cause massive Health & Safety stories!!!

I see the difference in my everyday life!

The other issue about 'petty rules' is that it is very likely that the UK will have to follow those rules if they want to export their products anyway....

There is so much scaremongering going on.
Like the last one about kettles and the fact the EU is going to ban kettles and hair dryers.
Wtf? It has only put some rules for the indutry to follow to limit electricty consumption. No one has ever said no kettles or hair driers would be found ever again. Or that those 'new' products wouldn't be as good. Why would they?

And limiting energy consumption is a good aim!!

I asked about ti because I have never yet come across one of the "petty bits of red tape" that didn't turn out to be either a myth or entirely sensibl. But anyway. Shall we move on to these unelected commissioners who "make the laws"?

I learnt the imperial system at school in the 1990s, though. 1970s was just currency decimalisation, wasn't it? Or if not, the implementation definitely took a while. (I don't think any of us Leavers are suggesting we bring back shillings )

I feel like I'm answering a bit hypothetically: 'what would a Leave voter whose main concerns were EU business regulations and red tape say?' when really I'm much more concerned with national sovereignty and, yes, immigration. So I'm not doing those arguments justice because - they aren't my arguments.

EverythingWillBeFine - that's odd. I looked it up and found this: www.its.co.uk/blog/buying-guides/what-is-110v-do-we-need-it/ which suggests that it isn't mandatory and that my relatives (or the person in charge of the site) were exaggerating and throwing in a bit of blame-the-EU for good measure. Oh well. Like I said, not what I based my vote on.

SnowBells I didn't go to university at 18. My little sister did, and I had to help with her application because my parents didn't have the knowledge to, and I knew that all the other school-leavers would have substantial help from their parents so it would disadvantage my sister not to help her. That's more of a parenting/general cultural issue than a 'nanny state' one, though.

Sovereignity. Now this one I really really don't understand.

Can you tell me what you mean by it?