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Brexit

The Westministenders / Media Baron Hunger Games continues. Is it about to all implode?

982 replies

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2016 18:51

THE BREXIT FALLOUT OUT CONTINUES - THREAD SEVEN!

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The Story So Far – Blue Corner
Johnson & Gove stabbed Cameron & Osborne. They then won a big vote about something or other. I forget the details. I’m not sure it matters anymore.

Johnson got then stabbed by Gove. Johnson joined Leadsom. Gove got stung by his mate Boles who was trying stab Leadsom, and he ended up getting stabbed by just about everyone.

Where We Are Now – Blue Corner
Out of the ashes of the mess that the posh boys made, emerged two unexpected contenders to become the Torchbearer for the Tories.

#Team May
The Home Secretary, and the former figure of hate, is now looking like she might be the choice of sanity and the one who might just be able to save us from ourselves. She is the choice of the left and centre. The left and centre now being anyone who thinks ‘The 1950s were very nice, but actually we’d prefer not to go back there. A return to the 1970s is far enough, thanks’.

She is supported by just about the entire mainstream media (which in itself is quite an achievement – The Sun and The Guardian being united in editorial opinion) and the majority of Conservative MPs. We don’t know this, but she quite possibly unites the Labour Party on the subject too.

#Team Leadsom
The Junior minister made good, and has outmanoeuvred all her superiors in the cabinet to throw her hat in the ring. The trouble is that she’s either somewhat naïve, a bit of an arsehole or a scheming liar. And that’s the charitable version.

She is emerging as the Sarah Palin of the UK, and has some dubious looking Tea Party links. In the era of post fact politics Project Fear is now Project Smear. Of course this makes her Mrs Umbridge, the poor apple pie lover, bullied by the political elite and media establishment, rather than a fruit cake.

BUT
Underestimate her appeal at your peril. She has a big field of unicorns somewhere that we’ve not been able to track down on googlemaps so far, and she is preparing to unleash them.

She is the choice of the Right. She is supported by much of the depths of twitter, Louise Mensch, UKIP, Arron Banks, BNP and Britain First.

Oh and that tax return? Hmm

Our future fate is to be decided by 150,000 Conservative Members (two thirds of whom are men and roughly 50% of whom are over sixty).

How we look back at David Cameron’s tweet on the 4th May 2015 with such fondness:
Britain faces a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with me, or chaos with Ed Miliband.

Send me the link for the petition to ‘Come Back Dave, all is forgiven’. We have at least six weeks of this particular shower of shit to look forward to, before the next one hits.

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The Story So Far – Purple Corner
Many years ago, Nigel Farage founded the idea and started his one man campaign for the UK to leave the EU. (Except he didn’t. It was someone else’s idea. He just took over and took the credit for it). He became the poster boy for the Leave campaign, despite not being affiliated with it. He stood and claimed victory, without a shot fired.

As he said to the European Parliament with impeccable manners and good grace, ‘We aren’t laughing now’. To be fair to him, we weren’t. We were all shouting ‘FUCK OFF’ instead. After securing his £7000 pay rise as an MEP, he decided enough was enough, and it was time to ‘get his life back’ (he got sacked) and look for a career as a contestant on reality TV shows.

I hear Help I’m a Celeb have offered half a million for his services.

Where We Are Now – Purple Corner
Quicker than you can say, ‘Oh Thank God(win) for that’, we are already are starting to miss ‘Our Nige’, the cheeky chappy from next door. Instead the options are looking bleak, as candidates start to crawl out from under their rocks. The spectre of Arron Banks and his call to arms for ‘freedom’ lurks in the shadow.

For those of you unfamiliar with Mr Banks so far in this story, he’s one of UKIP’s biggest donors. He and his mate Andy Wigmore run an offshore insurance company out of Gibraltar. Banks, was head honcho of Leave.eu and one of his other mates, hypnotist Paul McKenna, gave advice on how to influence people with propaganda. Banks and Wigmore have some connections with Belize. Bank’s ex-wife was accused of being one of the KGB’s best agents. They are now divorced and she has a harassment order out on him. He does not like the ‘Uk elite’ and takes it personality.
Sounds like just the kind of guy, you’d love to move in as a neighbour.

This is the very definition of shit.

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The Story So Far – Red Corner
Once upon a time, there was a man named Blair. He waved a lot of flags said ‘Cool Britannia’ and smiled a lot. But Tony turned out to not be such a good ‘un. He didn’t play by the rules and got caught out. Blair was made to appear on national television to defend himself. He cried, and told us how he couldn’t sleep at night, but actually he did do the right thing and everyone is still wrong and we are all picking on him.

Does he need to go away and think about it for a while? Say, in a locked room for several years?

Where We Are Now – Red Corner
The WMD that Bliar lost in Iraq finally turned up in Labour HQ on 24th June. However, no one has been prepared to let off a controlled explosion yet. Apparently there is something of an aversion to Big Red Buttons (otherwise know to us simple folks as ‘Agreeing on Something’ and ‘Making Decisions’) within the party.

Corbyn, the champion of Momentum, has been carrying on as if nothing is happening, there is no problem and its everyone else is wrong, insisting that since he had a mandate from the people 10 months ago and it’s all still honky dory. He’s doing his job just fine and leading is well, a bit of an inconvenience to his rally schedule.

The Unions seem to have declared war on Tom Watson. His name has been added to the ever growing list of ‘traitors’.

Across the country action has been taken against these ‘traitors’. Normally this behaviour would be classed as ‘thuggery’ and ‘intimidation’. In post-fact Britain though, this is now acceptable, if it’s from the Left. Violence against Labour members is only disgusting if it is carried out by the right, you see.

Apparently, as the Momentum chief says, ‘winning’ is only a ‘small bit’ of democracy that matters to ‘political elites who want to keep power themselves’.

Obviously political gains that help and protect the interests of the working classes and poor are surplus to requirements. I guess their ultimate aim is to win no Labour seats at all then. Good stuff. We are headed in the right direction for that one.

Angela Eagle left her doorstep, and went on the telly after a week of refusing to make a decision to say ‘Ok I’m going to stand to remove a man who refuses to make decisions’. Apparently she is doing this to ‘Heal Labour’.

Someone break it to her, that if Labour gets its legs blown off by Corbynite, the chances of them healing, are somewhat remote.

To make matter worse, Corbyn disagrees with how you get on the ballot paper, and might not be it at this rate. Or it might end up in court. Like article 50.

Owen Smith is the other pretender to the Crown of Roses. We know who he is now. He’s err… He’s still welsh!

What do we reckon the chances of Labour surviving as one party are? Zero to none? This is more like wading through shit than a shower of it.

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The Story So Far – Yellow Corner
Tumbleweed

Where We Are Now – Yellow Corner
Everyone’s been praying for a ruddy miracle to end this torture and give the country an opposition party. Finally, Tim Farron, has awoken, removed his splinters from his arse, got off the fence in response to this. Amid growing rumblings of a complete political realignment and fleeing Labour and Conservative MPs, he says:

‘Hey folks, this political turmoil looks fun, can we join in too?!’

FACEPALM

No shit left to share.

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The consensus of opinion is that we might be a tiny teeny bit screwed.
Did someone mention the EU? EU? Oh fuck that, we’ve just about forgotten all that now!
Bigger fish to fry.
British ones of course.

We need really do need Gandalf to come save us from this madness.

Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

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www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2680148-The-Westministenders-Media-Baron-Hunger-Games-continues-Who-is-trying-to-outmanoeuvre-who?pg=1 Previous thread 6

The Westministenders / Media Baron Hunger Games continues. Is it about to all implode?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
flippinada · 11/07/2016 23:02

Thanks Showme, am off to bed now but will have a listen tomorrow.

Showmethewaytogohome · 11/07/2016 23:03

They are really easy to find online - just Google it

I don't think they are an out of control mob. Far from it. From what I have seen first hand they are very organised, motivated and social media savvy.

thecatfromjapan · 11/07/2016 23:06

They're very easy to find, MrsLupo, use google.

I have to say, I've been very impressed by the use of social media and grass-roots organising of Momentum and I think mainstream parties could - and should - learn a lot from them.

  • The use of social media is very good
  • The promise of a de-obfuscated, non-intimidatory entry point into the group
  • The use of welcoming language (for example, the promise that all will be welcome, not just those steeped in political knowledge)

Just those three things leapt out at once. Political parties can be quite off-putting (and quite unwelcoming). I do think there is a lot to be learnt there.

rednsparkley · 11/07/2016 23:08

..

thecatfromjapan · 11/07/2016 23:08

(That was a bit uncanny!)

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2016 23:10

As MrsLupo's link suggests, it could be argued that this is a choice intended to a. adopt a direct, grass-roots communication, which has a political virtue in its own right and b. circumvent a not-friendly/hostile media. However, I do think it has generated a sense of absence where I, personally, would have preferred presence. The result tends to be that most reports of Corbyn's activities therefore tend to be relayed to and by those who are very keen supporters of Corbyn. And I do realise that (b) may be said to play a part in this.

c) witter is not mainstream media. You can control that yourself. Ditto other social media.

d) Re: Grassroots approach. Yes that's very important but one man can not be everywhere all at the same time. See c.

e) Today, he should at least have been gracious to Theresa May. Its frankly just manners - even if she is the opposition. He is going to b working 'with' her (by that I mean against but along side). For a man who went on about not wanting nasty combative politics, the cold shoulder is hardly much of a step up. That's passive aggressive, and not anymore productive. No one is asking him to be best buds, but a like bit of basic civility wouldn't go amiss either.

You can play to your own crowd, on your own terms, as well as the wider crowd by doing c and d together. I fail to see any reason as to why this is not possible. I'm sorry, but its in the realm of bullshit excuses to suggest differently on that.

I just start to think that Corbyn isn't interested in sharing his message beyond the small inner circle. The amount of reaching out beyond his normal boundaries - to places like council estates for example - is pretty none existent.

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JedRambosteen · 11/07/2016 23:11

Phew! Finally caught up - another busy, busy day. Thank you everyone for capturing things as they unfolded - it was great to get home from work & to be able to see what happened, as it happened. What threw me was catching up to about mid morning when nothing was doing, then switching on the radio whilst I got dinner on & hearing TM do her 'acceptance speech'. Spoiler! Grin

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2016 23:12

Oh and it needs to be HIM not other people doing it.

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thecatfromjapan · 11/07/2016 23:19

Red I am coming to the conclusion that I agree with you. Which is sad, really, because I did start out thinking that there was a great deal that was commendable in Corbyn and his approach.

Does anyone think this onslaught of news is going to slow down over the next couple of days (before it explodes again with the NEC)?

SwedishEdith · 11/07/2016 23:22

HIGNFY repeat is very topical

HesterThrale · 11/07/2016 23:25

I agree, cat. Corbyn seemed very inclusive once, but now seems to 'exclude' people or keep them at arm's length.

JedRambosteen · 11/07/2016 23:25

If it keeps up at this pace, cat, I have no hope. I work full-time and have prior engagements the next 2 evenings. Short of only getting 3 or 4 hours sleep Thatcher-style to give me more catch-up time, I will have to just dip & out of these threads. A terrific shame as Red and others are doing sterling work documenting and debating developments.

I have no idea what is going on in Corbyn's head - I'm reminded of that phrase in Don Quixote: 'tilting at windmills'. Nor do I know what Angela Eagle was thinking with her pink launch nonsense, although a lot of what she said was quite sensible. Still, I'm not a staunch Labour supporter - rather a left-leaning floating voter - so I'm sure it's not me they are trying to court...

MrsLupo · 11/07/2016 23:25

I was being slightly facetious, tbh. I know people who speak of Momentum as though they're hanging out on every street corner intimidating passers by, and other people who haven't even heard of them or have but don't know what they do.

I think one of the problems with the Labour party's current dividedness actually, is that many of the old school constituency-level activists are very cut off from social media and the younger generation generally. I think this has in large part fuelled the continued and continuing hostilities between 'Corbyn followers' and 'non Corbyn followers'. In many cases this actually means 'new members and older members' and doesn't necessarily accurately reflect people's loyalties. It has also created a bit of a vicious circle in that newer members - often Corbyn supporters, it's true - who thought they were just joining the Labour party, have been painted into an unwanted identity of 'Corbyn party members', and, finding themselves unaccepted to some extent have retrenched in support of their man after all. So it becomes a self-fulling prophecy. Or that is what I've seen in my local party.

I didn't understand then, and still don't, why a tidal surge of new interest and enthusiasm in a party which had just had a catastrophic general election defeat should be greeted with anything other than open arms. It is not as though the Labour party had its shiny bright future sabotaged by Corbyn. Rather the reverse, imo.

Anyway, I digress. I have no time for Momentum. I mean, literally, no spare time to involve myself with any extra activities political or otherwise, so I am hardly an expert, but as far as it goes I agree with your observations, cat.

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2016 23:29

I think the issue is Corbyn is essentially preaching to the converted, a little bit now.

I think its great his appeal has reached so many people initially, but you have to target the harder to reach too. He needs to take along those people he has and build on that. I remain unconvinced that he's actually achieving that.

That's the difficult bit. Its easy to talk to and share with the likeminded. You also need to start convincing the sceptics and the unsure.

And no, no slow down now til the end of the week I suspect. There will be lots of rumours flying about everywhere for both Labour and the Conservatives.

Anyway, I'm done for the night now.

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noblegiraffe · 11/07/2016 23:40

If you want to know what Jeremy Corbyn is up to, he's on Snapchat.

Here's what he was up to today instead of congratulating Theresa May.

The Westministenders / Media Baron Hunger Games continues. Is it about to all implode?
MrsLupo · 11/07/2016 23:43

I just start to think that Corbyn isn't interested in sharing his message beyond the small inner circle. The amount of reaching out beyond his normal boundaries - to places like council estates for example - is pretty none existent.

I honestly think you're wrong about this Red, but I can't prove it because none of this stuff is ever reported properly. I would have to do some kind of Labour party archive search. But I do know that when I've seen him speak, including in some quite depressed areas, it never even makes it on to fucking twitter, so a quick google news search is obviously going to be fruitless. You would need to know areas so you could do a local paper search. I certainly think council estates etc are far more on his radar than those of his opposite number (either DC or TM) though.

I saw some statistics this afternoon of how many rallies each of the key Labour figures had done in the run up to the referendum and his tally was far and away higher than anyone else's - higher than nearly everyone else put together in fact.

But I agree (in fact said) that it was odd he didn't do a brief speech congratulating Theresa May today. And unlike him, I thought.

I think the issue is Corbyn is essentially preaching to the converted, a little bit now

Possibly. All politicians do, of course. For him it's a bit more complicated because of all the traditional Labour votes lost to UKIP, so it's hard to say just by looking at the map/the target audience whether they are the converted or not.

Anyway, goodnight.

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2016 23:45

One last thing:

www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/the-rise-of-theresa-may-and-the-decline-of-british-politics

How this is being reported in the US. Its not flattering.

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TheBathroomSink · 11/07/2016 23:49

Right. Well, that clears that up then, noble. Clearly important business before you go to talk to Cuban communists.

Is there any sort of threshold for how badly a party has to fail at being an opposition before they can be replaced? I mean, ruthless efficiency is all well and good, and I prefer it to chaos, but we have an official opposition for a reason, and I'd quite like to know how to make them do the job they get paid public money for.

RedToothBrush · 11/07/2016 23:50

it never even makes it on to fucking twitter, so a quick google news search is obviously going to be fruitless

It only takes HIM to get it onto twitter though. That's ultimately the point. All the complaints about it not being reported? Report it yourself! Take a goddam selfie if that's what it takes.

People want to know. People want to see what you are doing. Where you are. Etc etc.

This isn't doing an interview with the mainstream. This isn't difficult. And its unlikely to offend anyone, by just saying what you are up to.

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BigChocFrenzy · 11/07/2016 23:56

How FTP protects us from UKIP
FPTP is brutal to parties whose vote is evenly spread around the country.
To win significant numbers of seats, they have to reach much higher % than parties like Con, Lab whose support is concentrated geographically.

Their easiest way of getting seats is to obtain defections from Con or Lab MPs already elected - and then lose most of them at the next GE.

Scenarios I calcuated using a YouGov swingometer: Halo [overheated brain emoticon]

  1. If UKIP reach 25% they only get 17 seats !
    Con 301, Lab 236

  2. UKIP can get more votes than Lab & Con, but still be far behind in seats
    With Con & Lab each 26 %, UKIP 31% only get 83 seats !
    Con 243 seats , Lab 214 seats

  3. UKIP on 36% are largest party with 200 seats, when Lab & Con each get 26%
    Con 173, Lab 175

  4. UKIP winning a GE happens suddenly around 38%.
    Once they get to 35+%, their number of seats has huge sensitivity and dependence on Con / Lab / Lib split
    If they reach 40+%, they get an enormous majority - similar effect to the SNP in Scotland suddenly smashing alll aside once they reached a critical %.

SwedishEdith · 11/07/2016 23:58

Apart from Banks, as anyone identified any of these scary -looking men yet?

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/can-ukip-make-andrea-leadsoms-departure/

MrsLupo · 12/07/2016 00:06

it never even makes it on to fucking twitter, so a quick google news search is obviously going to be fruitless

I just meant that I can't easily find the information you're interested in. Literally speaking, there may be something on twitter, just nothing readily searchable elsewhere. I just think that doesn't necessarily mean it never happened, because I know first hand of times when it did. That's all. Sorry if I was unclear. Tis late.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/07/2016 00:06

I had a sudden mad thought about consequences of Parliamentary democracy GrinWink

JC only had about 16 MPs who fully supported him from the beginning, as distinct to jumping on the bandeagon or grudging acceptance (political analysts estimated this 16 figure)

Suppose MrsLupo is right and Labour despite / because of JC win a snap GE with an overall majority
Snap GE means a very similar PLP.....
So they pass a vote of No Confidence in him .... he wouldn't be PM !
The PLP could select a leader for themselves and he /she under the rules of Parliament would be PM if their supporters in the PLP have an overall majority in the HoC.

< BigChoc exits, cackling manically Grin >

MrsLupo · 12/07/2016 00:23

lol, I am pretty sure an overall majority would cheer the PLP up no end!

Floisme · 12/07/2016 07:09

MrsL I really appreciate your input. There are lots of great posters on here but without dissenting voices, we'll become an echo chamber ourselves.

I wished Corbyn well once, mainly because of Iraq. No apologies for bringing it up again - all roads lead back there. I don't only hold Blair responsible: his cabinet (bar Robin Cook) backed him. On that occasion, The Dave Sparts were absolutely right and I think a little recognition and humility is in order.

But....I cannot get past the fact the Corbyn applied for and accepted the post of leader of the opposition. He knew what the job entailed - the clue is in the title - yet he is clearly uninterested in either leading or opposing. And yesterday he went missing again. As Red says, the claim that he doesn't get any coverage just doesn't hold water now that we have social media.

I know nothing about Momentum but I do know a bit about Militant Tendency. I can vouch that many of them were charming people and very idealistic. But they were a party within a party (although they denied it) and not interested in Labour winning general elections. They were also very secretive so what you say about Momentum being hard to get hold of in your constituency makes my heart sink a little. If they turn out to be Militant Tendency 2 but with social media then that is bad news for the Labour Party.

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