The Westministenders / Media Baron Hunger Games continues. Who is trying to outmanoeuvre who?

[RedToothBrush]

Don't worry we've all lost track.

In the Blue Corner
It started out with Cameron and Osborne trying to win the battle of the Tories, but they got stung in a UK wide vote. Some of us thought it was about the 'EU'. Instead it has turned out it was an internal Tory Bitch fight between some old Oxford and Eton mates, whilst for others a protest vote at being disenfranchised.
Gove and Johnson stabbed Cameron & Osborne in the back to run for Team Leave. Then they won when they didn't expect to. And there was no Plan. Uh Oh. Then it all started to go really wrong.
Cameron quit in disgust. Johnson went all President Churchill, before he also got stabbed by Gove (possibly with the assistance of the dark influence of Osborne).
We now have a Tory Smackdown with the shadowy influence of the Media Barons in the background.

#Team Gove has been doing their best with the knives. This is a mission to stab as many Tory MPs in the back as possible in order to become PM. Sponsored and supported by Murdoch

#Team Leadsom has been selling more unicorns and trying to pretend her CV and tax return are completely transparent. Think positive and the economy will be just fine. She is the homeopathy of politics. Sponsored and supported by Arron Banks, Leave.eu, UKIP and Britain First.

#Team May has been threatening to deport everyone if the EU don't play nice. Sponsored and supported by The Daily Mail's Dacre

In The Purple Corner
Tragically, it appears that not only do UKIP have a Plan A, they also have outwitted everyone by having Plan B. Yes that’s right TWO plans.
Farage has swanned off –sacked—for a life on CBB so they are looking for a new leader.
The potential candidates are all equally loathsome. They include Arron Banks himself, a suspended member of the party and several other people with an uncanny ability to put their foot in their mouths.
If this wasn't horrible enough, Team Leadsom is increasingly starting to look like a UKIP take over bid of the Conservative Party, which might be a neat way of avoiding a leadership battle of their own considering the quality of the candidates on offer.

In short, its a bit like a Bad Dystopian Movie that invokes Godwin, set in 2016 Westminster. Except its real.
In the Red Corner
Meanwhile the WMD has finally gone off in the Labour Camp, as Chilcot has been published. However the Chicken Coup rattles on regardless.

Corbyn is STILL clinging on, putting in a good claim for the Westminster 'Charlie off Casualty' Award. He has however had his Big Moment in the Commons. Which was a bit of a let down really. ...

The Unions have been trying to talk some sense into everyone. Meanwhile everyone else is has given up and are now just praying for a ruddy miracle to end this torture and give the country an opposition party.

Angela Eagle is still outside for the 5th day in a row, going "I will stand. Soon. If he doesn't quit" The BBC now qualify for a discount deal at the local Travel Lodge.

We FINALLY know who the fuck Owen Smith is! He's a Welsh MP and sounds like he's not completely away with the political fairies.

George Galloway appears to be trying to make a late bid to be included on the ballot paper for any leadership election.
Bliar's cried. We didn't. Chilcot took over 2 million words to tell us everything we already knew. As well as the fact that Mi6 like Nicholas Cage a lot.

The Cult of Momentum are still worshiping their Dear Leader by sending death threats to PR companies they suspect of disloyalty. Somehow they still manage not to get the title of the most vile pressure group in the UK.

And I suppose I should ask, when will a50 be triggered....? And by whom?

All these questions and more.
Tin foil hats now available upon request

Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2675432-Boris-outmaneovered-Et-tu-Gove-Corbyn-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-Continues? Previous thread 4

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2678198-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-continues-Boris-still-trying-not-to-be-outmanoeuvred Previous thread 5

Ok, I just hacked Loathsome's plans after she becomes PM:

I'm sure he'd do just what Putin tells him.

Umunna couldn't hack the press scrutiny last time. I don't know if he just doesn't like it, doesn't have the temperament, or there's something worse, but unless that's changed, I can't see it being him.

Starmer or Jarvis I could go for. Both of them speak intelligently and seem more concerned with doing stuff than making a point on a battle no-one is even fighting any more. I can understand Jarvis not wanting it just yet but someone should really be twisting Starmer's arm quite hard about now.

That's why I'm not too impressed by his "I don't have pressure" line. He should feel pressure. He has a huge responsibility to lead the opposition in a really important and dangerous time.

This is not about being right about what is wrong with this country or about his personal legitimacy. It's about Labour having actual influence.

I'm stealing that image BigChoc. I have an irritating family member on FM who's been posting Loathsome bollocks all day and I've been winding up with some of the funnier tweeted facts. That pic could be my new profile pic

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/andrea-leadsom-told-to-apologise?CMP=twt_gu

Some of the MPs who backed Loathsom, aren't too happy with her.

FB even. Luckily he's not an actual party member, just a pain in the ass.

Yes, Chalalala you're right, he should feel pressure. If he isn't, then it is a clear sign he isn't doing the job right.

Cameron is massively taking advantage of the disarray with this Trident vote, which is his job. Does Labour even have a policy on Trident yet? I know they were arguing about it when Corbyn got in, but then it all went quiet (I could google but it's late and I have whisky!)

Starmer is one to watch for me - only because I've never actually heard Jarvis speak. Why was Shami Chakrabarti sitting behind Corbyn the other day? Is she intending to become an MP? Interesting if so.

McCluskey's statement is a declaration of civil war:

" ..... Tom Watson’s actions today can only look like an act of sabotage fraught with peril for the future of the Labour Party.
....I made it absolutely clear from the outset of these discussions that Jeremy Corbyn’s resignation as the Leader was not on the agenda.....

I must warn that any attempts to keep Jeremy Corbyn, elected just 10 months ago with an enormous mandate, off the ballot paper by legal means risks a lasting division in the Party"

BathroomSink In my current mood, this pic is more my style:

What should Labour do though? Corbyn is in Durham today - the NE is one of the areas Labour are most vulnerable to UKIP. So, if he's persuasive or influential there, that's a good thing? I don't really know what their strategy should be atm. It's unlikely they'll win a general election (isn't it?) so they should aim to cut the UKIP vote. I think it's, maybe, in the country's best interests to have a coalition government atm. Forever, maybe? I just don't know

I think in all honesty it's very hard to say for sure. Statistics for defections from Labour to UKIP relate to the 2015 election so pre-date Corbyn's leadership and are therefore not really relevant. In fact, if anything, they suggest that defecting to UKIP may have been a response to the much more right-wing (or centrist, depending on your pov) party that it was under Miliband.

I am biased, of course, but I really entirely fail to understand this oft-repeated assertion that Corbyn is 'unelectable'. For someone who is unelectable, he sure seems to have a lot - A LOT - of people who want to vote for him. Much has been made of the role of £3 'infiltrators' for the leadership election, but most of those have gone on to become full members, and many more have joined the party since. Membership is now at an all-time high. New members are variously accused of being socialists/marxists/trotskyites etc but in my experience they are more commonly people like me - members of yesteryear who drifted away during the Blair years because the party was no longer very left-wing. (At the time, the Libdems were considered a more radical alternative to the Tories.) We are in many cases the people behind the success of the 1997 Labour landslide. I voted Labour in '97 and helped turn a constituency that had been a safe Tory seat since the year dot into a Labour seat. I haven't voted Labour since, but I most definitely would vote for a Labour party under Corbyn. I know I am not alone in this.

As for coalition government, a rainbow/progressive alliance of, basically, non-Tories is already being openly discussed by the Greens and Libdems. My first thought was that Corbyn would not be very up for this, especially if the Libdems run on a Bremain ticket, but the article of his I posted earlier seems to subtly hint otherwise: If we come together, we can take them on and win. (He is speaking specifically of the PLP, but very little he says is not very carefully constructed, so, as I say, it may mean more than this.) If the SNP could be persuaded to vote with the alliance (accepting that their long-term goals may be different), then the Tories are effectively shut out.

BUT - To get to this point, the PLP has to give up their coup. I would have more respect for their coup if it had been conducted according to the rules, and more respect still if they had anything approximating a viable alternative to offer - but as far as I can see, they really, really don't AND they know it. The longer this continues, the stupider they are making themselves and by extension the whole party look. I don't think they are making Corbyn look stupid - or at least anyone who thinks that would probably not be voting for him anyway - but they are making the party look disorganised and unreliable, which is hardly a votewinner.

Sorry for the essay - lots of issues to consider. Hope that gives you food for thought, Edith.

Oh, and btw, the 'I'm not under pressure' comment was in response to being asked if he's feeling the pressure from the PLP's antics - not the pressure of the job itself. I think it's excellent that he is treating it all with the contempt it deserves and just getting on with the job of leadership.

www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jul/09/my-hero-elie-wiesel-by-david-miliband

Labour. You backed the wrong horse. As if you needed reminding David Miliband pops up today writing an article by Elie Wiesel.

MrsLupo - I get that, about his answer, but surely a better one would have been that he feels the pressure of representing the people who will be worst affected by Brexit, or something along those lines? If the media gives you an opening to get your message out there, you take it, however it comes.

The coup is a fiasco, I agree they aren't making JC look bad to his supporters but they have made the whole of Labour look unprepared for high office. Their biggest success, frankly, was that fact that it took so long for JC to get another shadow cabinet that the SNP tried to oust them.

I'm not a member, I've never been a member, and I'm unlikely to ever be one. I'm not a member of the Conservatives or any other party, either, but JC has not so far shown me that he could be a reasonable Prime Minister. He doesn't look capable of organising a Cabinet government and I don't see that he is surrounding himself with people who could step up and fill those leading roles. He didn't have to engage in a week of 'mediation' with the unions, where apparently the two sides were talking at cross purposes all week and no-one noticed.

BigChoc -

Thank you MrsLupo for that - thoughtful analysis. The Progressive Alliance, if it can really get its act together, sounds promising

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/philip-hammond-eu-leaders-happy-to-hold-informal-brexit-talks?CMP=share_btn_tw

By that they mean talks are already in progress.

Hammond is a Remainer and anti Leadsom. So, if he's talking I feel slightly (slightly) reassured. As Tories go, he's not a nutter (is he?).

Grrr. Hammond also weird on same-sex marriage according to wiki. Grrrr again

Re: Corbyn, for me it comes down to practicality.

He and the MPs don't get on, never have, never will. That's not a way to lead an effective party.

The MPs can't be replaced. He can. Therefore he has to go.

I'm not assigning blame here (there is blame on both sides imo), I'm just saying that practically speaking I don't see another way out.

According to theyworkforyou Hammond has mostly been absent for same sex marriage votes, but did vote in favour of one thing regarding the armed forces.

I see that tiggy but that was about pressure others feel.

Ooh, Loathsome's lack of tax return mentioned on BBC paper review

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/andrea-leadsom-tea-party?CMP=twt_gu

Leadsom and the Tea Party (That's the Sarah Palin one)
There's a connection. A big smoking gun of a connection.

Jo Phillips on paper review says labour look finished as official opposition, AE is a stalking horse, opportunity for lib dems to come through the centre.

The Koch brothers are pure poison, red. Ugh.