The Westministenders / Media Baron Hunger Games continues. Who is trying to outmanoeuvre who?

[RedToothBrush]

Don't worry we've all lost track.

In the Blue Corner
It started out with Cameron and Osborne trying to win the battle of the Tories, but they got stung in a UK wide vote. Some of us thought it was about the 'EU'. Instead it has turned out it was an internal Tory Bitch fight between some old Oxford and Eton mates, whilst for others a protest vote at being disenfranchised.
Gove and Johnson stabbed Cameron & Osborne in the back to run for Team Leave. Then they won when they didn't expect to. And there was no Plan. Uh Oh. Then it all started to go really wrong.
Cameron quit in disgust. Johnson went all President Churchill, before he also got stabbed by Gove (possibly with the assistance of the dark influence of Osborne).
We now have a Tory Smackdown with the shadowy influence of the Media Barons in the background.

#Team Gove has been doing their best with the knives. This is a mission to stab as many Tory MPs in the back as possible in order to become PM. Sponsored and supported by Murdoch

#Team Leadsom has been selling more unicorns and trying to pretend her CV and tax return are completely transparent. Think positive and the economy will be just fine. She is the homeopathy of politics. Sponsored and supported by Arron Banks, Leave.eu, UKIP and Britain First.

#Team May has been threatening to deport everyone if the EU don't play nice. Sponsored and supported by The Daily Mail's Dacre

In The Purple Corner
Tragically, it appears that not only do UKIP have a Plan A, they also have outwitted everyone by having Plan B. Yes that’s right TWO plans.
Farage has swanned off –sacked—for a life on CBB so they are looking for a new leader.
The potential candidates are all equally loathsome. They include Arron Banks himself, a suspended member of the party and several other people with an uncanny ability to put their foot in their mouths.
If this wasn't horrible enough, Team Leadsom is increasingly starting to look like a UKIP take over bid of the Conservative Party, which might be a neat way of avoiding a leadership battle of their own considering the quality of the candidates on offer.

In short, its a bit like a Bad Dystopian Movie that invokes Godwin, set in 2016 Westminster. Except its real.
In the Red Corner
Meanwhile the WMD has finally gone off in the Labour Camp, as Chilcot has been published. However the Chicken Coup rattles on regardless.

Corbyn is STILL clinging on, putting in a good claim for the Westminster 'Charlie off Casualty' Award. He has however had his Big Moment in the Commons. Which was a bit of a let down really. ...

The Unions have been trying to talk some sense into everyone. Meanwhile everyone else is has given up and are now just praying for a ruddy miracle to end this torture and give the country an opposition party.

Angela Eagle is still outside for the 5th day in a row, going "I will stand. Soon. If he doesn't quit" The BBC now qualify for a discount deal at the local Travel Lodge.

We FINALLY know who the fuck Owen Smith is! He's a Welsh MP and sounds like he's not completely away with the political fairies.

George Galloway appears to be trying to make a late bid to be included on the ballot paper for any leadership election.
Bliar's cried. We didn't. Chilcot took over 2 million words to tell us everything we already knew. As well as the fact that Mi6 like Nicholas Cage a lot.

The Cult of Momentum are still worshiping their Dear Leader by sending death threats to PR companies they suspect of disloyalty. Somehow they still manage not to get the title of the most vile pressure group in the UK.

And I suppose I should ask, when will a50 be triggered....? And by whom?

All these questions and more.
Tin foil hats now available upon request

Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2675432-Boris-outmaneovered-Et-tu-Gove-Corbyn-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-Continues? Previous thread 4

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2678198-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-continues-Boris-still-trying-not-to-be-outmanoeuvred Previous thread 5

He didn't just say he was surprised to see Farage, he said "why are you here?", with the clear implication that post-Brexut vote he had no right to be.

I don't have time to look through the transcript, but my impression at the time was that Juncker pretty much told them they should not come back.

Catching up on QT, I did find it quite amusing that Charlie Falconer couldn't keep a straight face when he tried to claim that Labour would win a GE if one was called soon.

Also Hislop on how well Loathsome would represent the oppressed hedge fund managers of the Channel Islands.

Love these threads and have been lurking since the beginning (panic sort of subsiding now but still worried and furious...). Briefly de lurking to post a link to a good summary, including graphic, of the democratic problem we now find ourselves in. Written by an academic at Loughborough.

link here

btw, someone on the last thread referred to queues at German embassy
If you have an EU passport, absolutely no need for visas or any other paperwork (as I was informed yesterday when I visited German Ordnungsamt, expecting to fill in forms)
Just go.
You can take any dependants; you don't need a job first.
BUT, as for a German moving to the UK, you would not be entitled to any welfare or other help until you've been resident and contributing for some time. So, you need funds to live on, until you start earning. You need to find yourself somewhere to live too

You would need to register for tax within 3 months, if you are staying there. Generous tax allowances for DC.
Also eventually join their health service or a private one, since the EHIC / form E111 is only valid for temporary visits.

Brexit:
Apparently some international lawyers think the UK cannot actually be forced out of the EU without an agreement, even after Article 50 is invoked:
if the terms are not satisfactory the UK can revoke A50 and, presumably, invoke again with an additional 2 years etc

So, it would be possible to call a halt if either the negotiations were totally bogged down OR if the government (maybe insanely) felt they must give the electorate the chance to approve an EEA deal that would inevitably include free EU movement

Thanks Sellotape :)

You really feel that graphic when your entire country's votes were less than the difference between Leave and Remain.

This will have most profound effect on us.

And we effectively had no say on the matter.

Bigchoc - the German issue there ^ - is that for people who qualify for citizenship or for anyone looking to leave uk?

We're seriously rehashing old plans to move to Sweden, but Germany is also a goer.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks sellotape, that article really helps explain why I feel so desperately uneasy with claims that democracy requires the referendum result to be acted upon.

That was me BigChoc, very useful information. Thank you. I want the passports for the DC though as DD moved to Scandanavia and really needs to have a EU passport in the long term . It's a link to my Mum who died a month ago and one of the last things my Grandad did was sort my dual nationality so I feel quite strongly about getting them sorted. I'm really glad you are sorted and thanks again for the info.

Thanks Sellotape. It shows how serious constituency boundaries are and how seriously we should all take redrawing boundaries. Gerrymandering is a big problem in first past the post systems.

I note again that we still do not have a tax return provided, as we were assured there would be.

The longer she takes to provide that tax return, the more closely it will be examined for discrepancies. I have been wondering what the hold up is, and how much "adjusting" it needed.

They must have run out of Tippex.

Oh for heaven's sake AE!!! Either stand up or shut up! Do you REALLY not know how foolish this is looking now?!?!!

Angela Eagle: If Jeremy Corbyn doesn't resign, I'll stand against him
Posted at
11:21
Angela Eagle
BBC
Labour former minister Angela Eagle has reiterated her warning to party leader Jeremy Corbyn that he must resign.

Speaking this morning she said:

Jeremy Corbyn needs to resign. He's losing support in the country. He needs to do the right thing. And if he doesn't, I will stand against him.'"
Ms Eagle would not answer any further questions.

Thanks Tiggy. I haven't analysed the numbers myself so thank you for giving them. I think the point is valid though - perhaps it needed to go a bit further and analyse the democratic obstacles faced when the majority of Parliament would vote remain yet the majority of the electorate who voted voted to leave - interesting question - should MPs vote how their constituency would vote in a referendum (or how they did vote) or does their democratic mandate mean they should vote according to their judgement, or to their political line?

Reply to Minou : Anyone with an EU passport can take any number of dependants to any EU country, without any forms or permissions. That's the free movement principle.
You can stay there as long as you wish, a year or forever (currently) and noone asks you anything BUT don't overlook that you won't get any welfare help either, until you have contributed and joined their health service, pension scheme etc. for a certain time.

All you are required to do anywhere, is after 3 months there, to register at the tax office and (in Getmany at lesst) also register where you live - that is the same for their own citizens and is common across Europe

Even if Brexit comes without a deal on EU immigrants, there is a right to stay under the EHRC once you have "made your home" somewhere a certain unspecified number of years.
No other EU country would flout this, regardless of PM May or Loathsome repealing EHRC. However, an orderly Brexit agreement should state a specific residence period of say 3 or 5 years.

The German civil servants I spoke to said unofficially they expected it to take several years before British residents would be affected and that anyone arriving now would probably have sufficent residence period by then.
Just their reasonably qualified opinion though, so best to move early in case Loathsome sprints through brexit and overlooks some things.

Talking of Loathsome: we had Blair's "dodgy dossier" - remember that ?
Who would consider electing someone whose own CV is a dodgy dossier ?
She's told us what she really is like wrt dodginess. I hope Tory Party members listened.

Sellotape that article is very very revealing.

I know that is certainly true in our constituency.

Our counting area was Leave. Our constituency was remain by some margin. I know as I know someone at the count as an observer who was there precisely to look out for this.

To cap it off our Tory MP supported Loathsom. So his personal feelings on the matter, really don't reflect the constituency, but he can justify his choice of leader on the basis of Leave/Remain because of the count area result. Its like salt to the wound.

It now also means that if it comes to it, our MP can effective CHOOSE whichever position he likes, based on 'democracy' giving him a level of power that I take issue with. It seems very much like he's chosen a position which is very much at odds with those he is supposed to represent.

To almost add insult to injury, the seat is a close run seat which frequently does change hands. The Labour Party and Lib Dems both would have a good shot at it at a GE. Based on what happened in May in the local elections, it also certainly would change again. Not that it would make a difference to the overall country. I know its a personal bug, but the referendum being run in a way that didn't match up with the electoral system across the country was always going to cause a problem

@DoinIt Our tiny electorate in NI gets no say at all in any of this. Even if there is a GE, the Labour party still won't fielr candidates.

Or maybe in the teeth of our destruction they might actually let us have a say on the matter

I suspect the reason that NI has been so overlooked is at least partly because Westminster isn't taking the risk of renewed violence seriously. They'll be hoping that people put up and shut up and that everyone will be so happy that they've enjoyed relative peace for 20 years that the population at large won't allow things to slide back. So they've clearly not met many NI natives....

My other concern for NI is that it's a bit of an orphan state, and nobody wants us, yet we're too small and economically reliant on handouts and public sector jobs that we can't go alone either.

It wrongly starts from the assumption that leave won overall because their vote was concentrated in a few areas but that, the number of constituencies which voted to remain is higher than the number who voted to leave. This is not the case

Ah, I'd been wondering about this. Thanks for the numbers.

Fundamentally the current party political system (with both leavers and remainers in the main two parties) is not fit for purpose for a post BREXIT UK. Extracting ourselves from the EU will take decades. For policy to swing back and forth as different parties are elected (should the left EVER regroup to get the Tories out) will create a never ending cycle of uncertainties.

Arborea, NI was probably my BIGGEST reason I voted Remain.
Not every fucker forgot about you guys. I tried to look out for you.

This Week played out to the footage of the #Leadsom4leader march to a soundtrack of 'Fantasy'

Also, Theresa Villiers spent most of the time she was walking next to the screeching Tim Loughton looking like she'd rather be just about anywhere else.