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Brexit

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Original poster

Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

678 replies

ReallyTired · 06/07/2016 10:58

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

OP posts:
MGFM · 07/07/2016 19:00

People often move because there is an interesting job opportunity but that doesn't necessarily mean that their standard of living will change drastically. But if you live in a poor Eastern European country then by moving to do a low skilled low paid job is for the standard of living

allegretto · 07/07/2016 19:00

But most European countries put a limit on workers who could move from new member countries (poorer countries in the main) to avoid these problems. Britain decided not to. Is that the EU's fault?

MGFM · 07/07/2016 19:03

I just don't believe that that was the original idea behind the freedom of movement.

MGFM · 07/07/2016 19:05

We did have restrictions on Romanians and Bulgarians for several years after the influx of Polish people.

SnowBells · 07/07/2016 19:21

MangoMoon

Well - simple solution. The minimum wage has to be increased. But that's a Catch 22. Imagine you would put up the minimum wage. Suddenly, the cost of running, say, Tesco would increase. Who will end up footing the bill? Consumers. And that's where you'll have a problem.

People in this country are so used to go to the grocery, buy cheap food, etc. that if suddenly prices go up (which may be an outcome of the Brexit vote), there will be an outcry. The same people who complain about the low wages will also complain about the increased cost of food.

That's a problem a lot of governments have... how do you take something away that the general population has gotten used to so much?

allegretto · 07/07/2016 19:46

The problem of EU migrants undercutting local people is smaller where trade unions are involved in the workplace. Unfortunately this isn't the case for a lot of low skilled jobs. I am still not sure it was worth shooting ourselves in the foot for!

MGFM · 07/07/2016 19:59

I really don't understand how people can predict that we have 'shot ourselves in the foot'. It's a few weeks post referendum and no one on either side knows that the future holds. Equally staying in the EU could have been a ticking time bomb but I do believe that if everyone keeps going around as if the world has ended then it will be a self fulfilling prophecy. Plenty of countries in the world are not politically tied to others and survive just fine. I really don't see why anyone would think being politically tied to 28 other countries (increasing in the future) would be a good idea. And for those people that spout about travel and study and work. You can still do those things , they might just need some paperwork first. And why everyone thinks exchanges with European universities are the only option baffles me. I did my year abroad in Mexico. There were also plenty of exchanges with US universities and universities in the rest of the Americas. Frankly I thought a year in Mexico sounded much more exciting than a year in Spain where I could go on holiday whenever. I am ranting a little bit now. I have also worked in the Far East - wasn't that difficult to sort out a visa.

allegretto · 07/07/2016 20:55

MGFM - for a lot of people a trip to Europe is a hell of a lot more affordable than Mexico! And I am so pleased that you are still optimistic - I have already lost several thousand pounds which will take me months of hard work to get back and I do not know under what conditions I will be able to stay in the country I have been for the past 18 years so excuse my anger.

MGFM · 07/07/2016 22:44

I had full student loan (plus they give you more when you are abroad). Parents low earners, the British Gov funded almost the cost of my return flights to Mexico. Mexico was (and still sort of is) a cheap place to live. My loan stretched the whole year whereas in the UK I would have had a part time job. Things aren't always as difficult as they seem. Job in Japan was funded by Japanese Gov including return flights and subsidised accommodation. These opportunities are out there, people just need think outside of the EU. I am sorry you have lost money, I really am but I think it is a bit dramatic to think you are going to get booted out of the country. Do you really honestly believe that is going to happen? The UK is still one of the most tolerant diverse countries in the world and that isnt going to change just because we dont want to be in the EU. The racist people on the news were racist before the referendum. They are not a good barometer of why people voted out.

Aerfen · 07/07/2016 23:14

FarAwayHills
And I'm Irish, so Brexit does absolutely have everything to do with my rights here

NO it doesn't as Britain has always had a special relationship with Ireland and allowed Irish people to live and work here freely when the EU was still only a dream in the mind of Jan Monnet and the other 'Founding Fathers'.

As our chief trading partner I would be absolutely amazed if Junker and Merkel choose to punish Brits if the UK and ROI do not work out some amicable agreement favourable to both.

Aerfen · 07/07/2016 23:37

allegretto
Aerfen - please remember you are talking about real people and moderate your offensive language. I agree with Crossroads - your posts are clear examples of hate speech.
How RUDE to describe my comments as 'hate speech' Shock and to make unevidenced accusations of 'offensive language'.
I am not talking about 'real people' I have talked about ONE anonymous woman mentioned by someone on this board who would not even recognize herself in the unlikely event that she happened to read this thread. I havent attacked anyone on this board, the offensive language is coming from you.

You also seem to think that everybody in the world wants to come to the UK - this just isn't true.
Er no, another strawman attack.
I do not think "everybody in the world wants to come to the UK" , have not said that, have not suggested that. Is that clear?

Aerfen · 07/07/2016 23:42

MGFM
I really don't understand how people can predict that we have 'shot ourselves in the foot'. It's a few weeks post referendum and no one on either side knows that the future holds. Equally staying in the EU could have been a ticking time bomb

Well said. But you have to remember for some in the Bremain camp the EU is an article of faith, nothing to do with economics they just really want to see a United States of Europe and theyre furious now their will has been thwarted, so furious that they actually WANT to cut off their noses to spite their faces and see our economy go down the pan!

Did you see some of those marchers carrying I Love the EU banners? It was like something out of 1984!

allegretto · 08/07/2016 08:21

Aerfen
Immigrant incursion - parasitic - undesirable (person) - drain (to describe a person)

Is that enough evidence for you? This is inflammatory language so yes, I would describe it as hate speech. It is dehumanising language. When I asked (politely) for you to modify your language you said that you hadn't attacked anyone on the board. I was talking about the immigrants. It is telling that you didn't consider this.

Lico · 08/07/2016 08:56

Indeed, dehumanising language.
This is language used in the 1930's which led to Hitler and concentration camps.
This is an abhorrent attitude.

Lico · 08/07/2016 09:04

First select a group of people, attack it then dehumanise it in order to justify deportation. Genocide next?
This rise in nationalism is very, very dangerous.

citroenpresse · 08/07/2016 10:15

United States of Europe…this 'vision' is ONLY ever in rhetoric from the leave camp. Where have you seen ANY Bremain argument for this?! Wanting to be part of something bigger than Little England is a long, long way from this UKIP United States of Europe type thing. France and Germany can bang on about greater political union all they like but lots of countries not that keen (including British. Who of course negotiated such a statement, but gone now….). It's a democracy, remember?

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 10:23

"But you have to remember for some in the Bremain camp the EU is an article of faith, nothing to do with economics they just really want to see a United States of Europe and theyre furious now their will has been thwarted" Yeah, sure. That's exactly how remainers feel Hmm

Has anyone done an analysis of how many total loons voted each way?

citroenpresse · 08/07/2016 10:31

Rise in nationalism…our historical memories don't seem to stretch 10 minutes let alone a single generation.

Aerfen · 08/07/2016 10:44

Allgretto
incursion = "an entering into"
Are you trying to say immigrants are not entering into Britain (and Europe for that matter?
'Drain' = "a thing that uses up a particular resource"
The single German woman is a massive drain on resources, taking far far more than she contributes, which also makes her parasitic
'Parasitic' = living off another.
Royalty are often described this way and I never hear the far left or the plain self righteous complaining that this is 'hate speech' or 'offensive'. Indeed they are the ones who normally say it!
Typical PC hypocrisy using feigned 'offence' to control the language and prevent people complaining.
If you dont like the words 'parasitic' and 'drain' and would never dream of using them yourself of anyone, even when it is true, then what words would you use instead, with the same meaning when you want to make a perfectly valid criticism of someone living off others when she doesnt deserve to do so?

We have every right to describe this woman and any other immigrants like her in negative terms.

BreakingDad77 · 08/07/2016 11:48

"But you have to remember for some in the Bremain camp the EU is an article of faith, nothing to do with economics they just really want to see a United States of Europe and theyre furious now their will has been thwarted"

what a load of rubbish - are you serious not one remainer i know or read online anywhere has even alluded to this.

allegretto · 08/07/2016 12:39

Yes I am offended by anyone being called a parasite and incursion is not a neutral word it is used normally to describe an attack. To be honest I am not sure if you are ingenuous or trolling us with these comments so I am not going to follow this thread anymore.

Aerfen · 08/07/2016 13:22

" not one remainer i know or read online anywhere has even alluded to this"
Then you havent looked very hard, mad Bremainers having hissy fits on social media, You Tube...
And before anyone steps in with the strawman I am not saying everyone who voted Bremain is mad, brainwashed, or in thrall to the EU, certainly large numbers were waverers who only voted Bremain because they were frightened of the economic consequences of a Brexit, but nevertheless a vocal minority are EU zealots:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/02/brexit-referendum-voters-survey

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 13:33

The irony of a leaver saying that remainers are mad brainwashed zealots is not lost.........

BreakingDad77 · 08/07/2016 13:39

So Aerfen when will you be happy that you have "got your country back" and which party is going to deliver it?

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