Does anyone still think the referendum was a good idea?

[whydidhesaythat]

Just checking.

More like he didn't bank on winning the last election.

Yes.

The fact that people on this thread are still banging on about a European army (that doesn't exist and Britain would have been able to veto) illustrates what a poor idea this was.

The level of misunderstanding about what was actually being voted for was also spectacular. One of our local discussion fora had one bloke admitting that he and his friends voted leave because he thought it meant leaving Europe (the continent) not the EU! Now that's a pretty extreme example, but illustrates the point.

It was too complex a point to be decided by a referendum, and the gaslighting campaign on fear and misinformation was shameful (to be fair campaigning on both sides was not good).

No it was a bad idea the topic was way too complex and it shouldn't have been up the general population and the dumbass reasons they will base their vote on.

Yes and the fact that some of us believe that it's too complex an issue for the public to vote on is absolutely staggering. The subtext there is 'll stupid to vote the way I want you to vote therefore you shouldn't have a vote.

Agree totally with lightening girl. The same people suggesting the issues are complex are implying that those who voted leave are staggeringly stupid or uneducated.

You can't have it both ways!

It is too complex and I say dumbass reasons for leave and remain. The decision could potentially bring the nation to its knees. A lot of the info was obvious lies, 350mil a week for the NHS well they got rid of that pretty quick. Australian points Based system? pretty sure that's not happening. Even the politicians who lead the out campaign are slowly disappearing and don't really know what to do.

Ahh, Limer actively relishes the prospect of watching the refugee crisis because humanitarian disasters are always so hilariously entertaining if you feel you have washed your hands of any responsibility for them.

What a shameful statement. Can we just vote Limer out of the EU, please?

I'm disappointed by Leave voters who can't see the complex issues still. Who are just 'so happy' with the result. I think they are the ones who saw it all as a win or lose game, no though for the damage caused. Yhe day of the referendum, when I still expected Remain to likely win, I was saddened by the whole process. I thought it shouldn't have been put to a referendum. I thought the divisions and rifts it has exacerbated across the country would be too hard to heal and take the fallout would be felt for a long time. Had Remain scraped such a tiny majority as Leave have done, I would consider it a deeply grave situation even though I would have been on the 'winning side' - the issues brought to light are far more serious than that. Leavers who are now just totally happy are trivialising something profound and serious and proving that they never really thought about this issue at all.

I can get on board with the thoughtful Leave voters, but the 'I'm so happy, haha' ones don't appear to have a clue about what just happened.

The idiots who think democracy is defined by a referendum and that all the other democratic processes which may undermine that referendum are 'undemocratic' make me want to smash my head into a wall for some light relief.

Yes it gave people a chance to let the government they are not happy and want change

We elect them to lead us. But it's an opportunity for them to gauge how we feel

It is far too complex an issue to reduce to for a yes/no vote irrespective of voters' intelligence and education.

The idiots who think democracy is defined by a referendum and that all the other democratic processes which may undermine that referendum are 'undemocratic' make me want to smash my head into a wall for some light relief.

Captain may I suggest this useful assistant for arguing with people on the Internet?

"Yes it gave people a chance to let the government they are not happy and want change"

But most of the things people aren't happy with are nothing to do with the EU!

lightning I have never said that I think that all Leave voters are stupid. But the complexity of all the issues involved is staggering (and massively understated by both sides during the campaign). Added to the fact that no-one can predict the medium and long-term effects with certainty. How could either side truly know what we were actually voting for?

If you can honestly, hand on heart, say that you voted with a full and complete understanding of all issues (N Ireland, Scotland, economic, environmental.......) then maybe you can argue that it was fine to call the referendum. If you can also be confident that everyone voted with this knowledge, great. But I certainly didn't. I thought about the environment and tried to understand the economics but I didn't give even a passing thought to NI, for example. Never occurred to me and no-one suggested it.

It's not about being thick, or intelligent, or anything else. It's about just not having the full scope of understanding. And that assumes that everyone is even interested enough to read the information that is available.
I don't have a full understanding of how to fly a plane, so it is not right that I should be asked my opinion on how to do it.

Sometimes you have to accept that you just don't know enough about something. There's no shame in that - it's how we learn. But we've got into this idea that it is a terrible thing to suggest that someone doesn't know things, that instead everyone is equally as good as everyone else in this sort of decision, and I disagree. When a Nobel prize winning economist tells me what is best, I'm not about to shout that my understanding is as good as his, because I did six weeks of basic economics as part of a series of general knowledge lessons at A Level. I will accept that he knows more than I do and I don't see what's wrong with that. It's not putting anyone down, or making disparaging claims, it's just saying that his knowledge and experience deserves a bit of respect.

Actually, something just occurred to me.

If Cameron had been campaigning for "leave" would the protest vote people have voted "remain"?

Grassgreen - there must be other ways to gauge how we feel than through a referendum which will have serious implications, none of which I can see that are positive, for the next couple of generations. If that's all this was, it's like grazing your knee, and amputating your arm to try and help.

Bertrand - wow. Now there's a thought. Which has implications all of its own.

The Indy Ref and the general election were still taken against this backdrop however.

EU membership question covers so many areas - legal, political, economic, social, EU & non EU migration, that it's a big job for anyone to be on top of the details every single aspect.

The leave voters don't even know precisely what they've voted for on any of those fronts.

Baby - none of which I can see that are positive, for the next couple of generations.

That's why lots voted out. It's not the now that they are thinking of its the future.

And what other ways are there to gauge the population?

It's not about being thick, or intelligent, or anything else. It's about just not having the full scope of understanding

Exactly.

My thoughts exactly baby!

No it was one of the worst ideas ever. So many complex issues wrapped up in a single yes or no question. It should never have happened.

If Cameron had been campaigning for "leave" would the protest vote people have voted "remain"?

A distinct possibility, I would have thought, because I think many voters were registering a protest against the current government.

Now of course, if Cameron had been a bit smarter, he would have not campaigned at all, and let someone else do the work. He obviously thought that with his luck in winning the last GE, he would pull it off again. (As I and a lot of others did, to be honest.)

I think so too. Which is why referendums are such a bad idea.