Tony Fucking Blair

[MangoMoon]

Interviewed on Sky News - apparently the people have spoken..... But we don't necessarily have to listen.

I hate that man.

With a passion.

Chris
Unbelievable!

mango LOL.... I was merely addressing your 'personal doubt, and smallfoxs' dubious list.

If you look hard enough, people can find positives in the most outrageous of places.........

I certainly wasnt comparing! Keep the faith.

Nothing wrong with my list.

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/6738

From the IFS on Labour's record on poverty:

"here, we show how income inequality changed little but child and pensioner poverty fell significantly"

However they do suggest it was fragile as much was dependent on CTCs etc.

"Turning first to poverty, both absolute and relative measures of income poverty fell markedly among children and pensioners - although the scale of the changes did not always match the considerable ambition, as set out explicitly in the case of the government’s child poverty targets."

"There were many other Labour initiatives that could be considered anti-poverty policies. These include the introduction of the National Minimum Wage, Sure Start, increased financial support for childcare, significant increases in education spending and an expansion of the number of young people going on to higher education. Any payoffs from most of these measures will be long run, rather than immediate"

Yeah, so I'd take that they did reduce poverty, just didn't meet their targets.

Also there needs to be a very careful use of the term "poverty" when we discuss relative poverty that people are living on 60% less than the average as it goes up in times of rising incomes and down in times of recession.

I didn't notice 'significant increases in education spending'. Mind you, I taught in Cornwall, and we had a very low spend per pupil because we were rural, and hadn't voted Labour. I spent a small fortune on resources because the money just wasn't there.

The funds weren't allocated by area, apart from the one about raising attainment in London schools which was quite frankly needed as they had been woefully underfunded for years.

If you were still here scary you certainly would have noticed the cuts have brought in, I think this is how you realise how well funded we were. You don't notice as it increases gradually, but you do when its all taken away.

Is that really his middle name?

If it isn't already, then I think he should change it by deed poll, post haste.

I may set up a gov.uk petition for it - pretty sure it would eclipse the 'ignore the referendum result' one in a matter of minutes...

Funding definitely improved. When I was teaching 1993 we had buckets collecting water running through the roof in our classrooms. In my area there was a huge rebuilding programme, 'schools for the future'. TAs were very rare and mostly did displays....

Yes he got it wrong on Iraq, but so did most people at the time

Er no.

The majority of the general public at the time was against it, and if the other nations were so for it, where were their troops?

Joysmum,

I campaigned for the stop the war coalition. The population was definitely backing the war at the time. We were a large and vocal minority, but significantly a minority.

The march in London was impressive yes, but when doing smaller protests and handing out leaflets we were shouted at on a regular basis. People refused to sign petitions, we got our leaflets thrown back at us for being unpatriotic.

Most people backed the war.

Blair's contributions not including the Iraq War, and yes I marched at the time :

A minimum wage which was below a living wage which needed tax credits in order to live; thereby subsiding big business who could continue just paying the minimum wage

The introduction of tuition fees

The introduction of Work Capability Assessments and the outsourcing of the process

The selling of our gold reserves when the price of gold was at a low point

The use of PPP (just the same as PFI, just a different name ) that means that we're paying 10 times what we could otherwise (3x would have been reasonable for "advance" purchase like a mortgage but 10x is profiteering)

.....off the top of my head

And yes, in 1997 I was delighted that he'd won.

From my experience, I would agree with SmallFox re the Iraq invasion.

There was a lot of support for it.
It was only as the omissions of truth etc came out that the tide turned.

Its what drives me up the wall about all of this brexit thing Mango,

We stood on the street and told people the facts, the same facts that "came out" later. People chose not to believe then.

People now attack Blair because its politically expedient.

I still think people will behave the same about brexit in years to come, NO ONE will have voted out.

How funny?

I disagree!

No one will admit to have voted remain, because the streets will be paved with gold!!

smallfox1980 - you win the prize for being the rightest person on the interweb today. I think to many people don't like being wrong, that's all. Dunno why - there's no shame in it. It's like the way we're clinging on to Corbyn (which is obviously another thread!). Blair was incredibly popular and when his popularity declined, it was probably more because the general public was getting sick of him than Iraq. I like your list too - I'm a bit dazzled! All we hear is negativity abut 'Blairites' but bloody hell, they made this country a better place.

I'm not sure if thats sarcasm seahorses lol

For the record: even though I didn't vote for him in 1997 I live in Scotland , I was still pleased he won.

Thereafter I was always explicitly glad (ie not "after the fact") that I had an alternative I believed in to vote for.

My dad made the interim step from Labour to the LibDems after the Iraq War (my parents marched with me) - he was in Jo Swinson's constituency but told her to her face politely of course that he wouldn't be voting for her at the last GE.

(He's a proud Remain too! )

To be fair, smallfox had me nearly nearly nearly, ever so slightly wavering in my hatred of Blair.

No small feat!

The question you have to ask yourself is, would John Major, William Hague, IDS and Michael Howard have come anywhere near those achievements?

Blair was an odd one because he gave with the one hand and took away with the other. Anyone else remember Gershon efficiency savings? And public service funding starting to be available only as pots which had to be applied for for specific projects, encouraging 'divide and rule'? He started the whole target culture, continuing Thatcher's job of attacking the professions as well as leading to all sorts of crappy ways of meeting targets in services rather than actually, you know, helping people. Oh, and in attacking the professions he attacked local accountability and local government as well, continuing and encouraging a gradual centralisation of all power in London.

I dislike him mainly for seriously confusing the political scene in Britain. By joining the Labour party in the first place and reinventing them he took away a left voice, took away the voices of the working people from parliament, and made the whole idea of a 'left' impossible. In lunging for power first and foremost he helped to destroy the idea of negotiation in Parliament, helped to cement the notion that the only thing that matters in politics is winning power no matter what you wanted to do with it. He encouraged and directly led to the situation we've now got with the referendum, where various London politicians spread untruths and lies, expecting to win power in London thereby, completely oblivious to the effects on the rest of the country. He brought in the importance of spin and propaganda and married politics and media more than anyone else, clearing the way for Cameron.

Oh, and later on he started trying to marry up religion and politics too in emulation of bloody America. Thank goodness that hasn't taken too much of a hold here yet.

Bungo - I had just that argument with someone over the weekend: by taking over the centre-right (dh would dispute even the "centre" bit ) ground, he effectively forced the Conservative Party even further to the right.

War Criminal

Yep. Thereby shifting the whole political landscape in Britain to the right, so that the old centre ground is now considered left and the real left is considered loony and outrageous, even when its propositions work demonstrably well in the continent. Helped to make the 'austerity' delusion the 'only possible way' despite that economic path being roundly debunked nowadays.