Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Anyone else baffled by this portrayal of the EU as progressive and liberal

277 replies

Roonerspism · 02/07/2016 22:47

It struck me today watching the march that the EU is now being protrayed as this liberal force across European states promoting fair standards for all.

From the moment I knew I no longer believed in the EU, about five years ago, it was because I saw it as the exact opposite.

And it was this that underpinned my vote to Leave.

I'm essentially left leaning and feel increasingly lost in this sea of protests!

The EU has never meant "Europe" to me and is rather the desire for a distant superstate with power in the most powerful few countries. Indeed, the current austerity placed on the Southern European countries, to the benefit of the north seems to go unnoticed to the devastated UK youth who seem not to consider the hugely unemployed youth in south Europe.

This is a capitalist project and not a humanitarian one. The reason for free movement of people as a core concept is not because it's nice to travel but solely to ensure corporations have access to a mobile and cheap workforce this encouraging greater integration. Never mind if this decimates the country of origin.

The misery of the infliction of a single currency on countries as disparate as Germany and Greece and the subsequent power held by Germany will cause untold suffering for at least a generation.

The talks to promote TTIP have largely been held in secret and further underlines the utterly undemocratic nature of this regime.

Yet here we all are. Waving our EU flags.

I'm utterly bemused. Am I mad?!?!?!

OP posts:
ChamgaigneBob · 03/07/2016 12:45

Chill out man. The EU Rocks.

GraceGrape · 03/07/2016 13:03

Let's hope you're right Rooner. I understand that sometimes we have to go with short-term pain for long-term gain, but I think we tend to think of our own families first. For our children entering the workplace in the next few years, I think life could be very difficult for them.

SnowBells · 03/07/2016 13:11

Rooner

Yet as demonstrated, they are often highly motivated people who work hard and rarely claim benefits.

So... how come the local population can't do the same to remain competitive?!?

Roonerspism · 03/07/2016 13:14

Well snow the answers are diverse and they probably can and do. You are driving down wage costs in that area and pushing up demand for housing and schools.

That might work if the government then ploughed the lovely extra tax into those areas, but they don't.

And then over the longer term, the area simply can't cope.

OP posts:
timetobackout · 03/07/2016 13:14

So... how come the local population can't do the same to remain competitive?!?

You asked the question, what,s your answer.

Winterbiscuit · 03/07/2016 13:17

"I'm essentially left leaning and feel increasingly lost in this sea of protests!"

"Free movement, as stated above, is fundamental to the EU not to encourage travel but so that corporations can access cheap and mobile labour. It works pretty well when the member states are fairly similar in terms of living standards. Watch what happens when that changes."

Hear hear!

Latentprint · 03/07/2016 15:23

I'm with you OP.

Other countries, such as Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada, to name but a few, would NEVER allow a separate country to set and dictate their laws and rules
It wouldn't happen.
A country should set it's own rules. Not be governed from afar.

I'm having a difficult time understand how the (mainly young it has to be said) are failing to see how wrong this system is.

RosesareSublime · 03/07/2016 15:44

Op I also agree.
I also wonder how many posters on here are looking at the EU as a separate entity or comparing it to the Tory Party with they hate with a rabid frothing passion.....

If I look at the EU and compare it to North Korea, i would find in favour of the EU.

RosesareSublime · 03/07/2016 15:47

I'm having a difficult time understand how the (mainly young it has to be said) are failing to see how wrong this system is

Because they don't understand it, they think they cant live and work in the EU now and probably cant even travel there Shock its all they have ever known, and they probably have not studied politics, history or philosophy. I would also assume they are taking a lead from their parents.

this is why IMO it was crucial to get out now whilst older generations and slightly younger remember life before this political marriage.

WinnieFosterTether · 03/07/2016 15:50

There were left-wing MPs and left-wing artists, novelists, writers, etc who voted Leave. It's absolutely

It's amazing actually that the narrative was presented in such a way that the Right won whatever the outcome.

If Remain had won, DC would have been claiming credit for his party and for trade. Leave wins and the rest of the Tories claim some kind of 'make Britain great again' victory.

Shiningexample · 03/07/2016 15:55

Paul Krugman makes some interesting observations on the EU in this podcast
www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/insider/paul-krugman-on-brexit-and-its-impact.html?smid=re-share&_r=1

OTheHugeManatee · 03/07/2016 15:59

I went to primary school in France and Germany in the 80s, before free movement was a thing. So to me the younger people going on about how travel will now be impossible just seem to be overreacting a bit. It's not as though the British were imprisoned on our island before the Maastricht Treaty Confused

Want2bSupermum · 03/07/2016 16:02

I have seen a few FB posts from friends who marched in London. I'm disappointed that they just don't understand the concept of democracy. I didn't vote for Labour and we had Tony Blair. My local MP was also Labour. I didn't start marching. I shrugged my shoulders and got on with it, accepting that the majority didn't agree with me.

I also don't think people who were marching realize that we have just gotten out of paying huge vast sums of money for southern and eastern EU countries. Germany will be approaching the other countries and let's see how quickly they run in the other direction. This is also why the run on the currency and market wasn't so bad.

GerdaLovesLili · 03/07/2016 16:11

Roonerspism, you are not mad, and how you see the EU is exactly how I see it. You are not alone.

RosesareSublime · 03/07/2016 16:32

mantee our family has many familial ties to Europe, movement/iving work and to and fro has always been thus over the decades.

MelanieCheeks · 03/07/2016 16:37

Some interesting points being made on this thread, thank you op.

caitlinohara · 03/07/2016 17:57

Just found this thread. Thanks OP. This is exactly what I keep trying to explain to pretty much everyone I know. If there is ever a side to pick, I tend to find myself with Dennis Skinner, god bless him for voting Leave. Grin

It was obvious to me from even a small amount of research that Labour should not have supported Remain. They could have galvanised support from their core voters who were drifting to UKIP, and we could have had a sensible debate about it, and instead all the Blairites in the PLP got together and backed up their mates in the City and Cameron. It has completely discredited them in my eyes.

Wickedwitchofsouthwest · 03/07/2016 18:34

Great thread, all my friends are remainers they do not want to hear this sort of stuff. I'm fed up of all the crap unresearched articles they post up on social media because the headline suits their view. Instead of trying to see the other side of the argument they just keep telling themselves that half the country are racist half wits who are too stupid to read newspapers. To me it is a no brainer the EU is a monster.

WinnieFosterTether · 03/07/2016 18:52

caitlin yy i find Dennis Skinner a fairly reliable barometer for where Labour policies used to be when they represented the working class and underprivileged communities.

caitlinohara · 03/07/2016 19:01

Winnie Exactly. I've said this elsewhere, but I have had a real wakeup call in the last week or so. I thought that i was a typical Guardian reader type before all this and I am dismayed by the bias presented in what I always thought of as a left wing paper. i have been very naive. There has been much talk of echo chambers on Mumsnet but I find the absolute opposite - dh, my family and pretty much all my friends voted to Remain, the newspaper I read backed and continues to back Remain, almost everyone I follow on Twitter backed Remain (even Mark Thomas and Mark Steel - ffs! Shock), it's like being in a parallel universe where you suddenly find yourself at odds with everyone around you.

scaryteacher · 03/07/2016 19:05

Snowbells Perhaps I wasn't clear - I live in Belgium and as voting is compulsory here if you register, I will not register here.

I think that one can choose not to vote; my late Grandmother never voted, and we argued about it. I think choosing not to vote is exercising as much democratic choice as voting, or spoiling your ballot paper.

desperateMum45 · 03/07/2016 19:09

Agree
Thank you for posting

madwomanacrosstheroad · 03/07/2016 19:12

Finally some sanity here. I really don't understand how the eu suddenly became this allegedly progessive internationalist organisation. Could not vote but would have voted leave.
Regarding the germany /Greece issue there also is the small issue of Germany technically owing Greece a few hundred billion pound in war reparation.
I can understand the fear of the unknown and a wish to preserve the status quo especially if you have something to loose. However that is conservative, not progressive.

caitlinohara · 03/07/2016 19:15

I read that about war reparations madwoman. Actually it was the Greek crisis that made me start to question the EU, before that I was very much in favour.

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 03/07/2016 19:15

OP you are being sarcastic right? Confused
I am baffled at this thread tbh.

Swipe left for the next trending thread