Anyone feeling the country is dividing?

[Maz2444466]

I voted to Leave because I think the EU is anti-democratic and bureaucratic. I have absolutely no problem with immigration. I do believe though that integration is key for community cohesion.

I live in London and ALL my friends voted to remain. My best friend voted to Remain, I told her I voted to Remain as she thinks everyone who voted to Leave is racist and evil.

I feel like this referendum has created divides that were never there.

Is this just human nature? For people to follow the pack? I looked for a Facebook Leavers group tonight and everyone in it said how they love Nigel Farage. I don't.

I feel I can't relate to either side. I know this is a first world problem and I probably need to just get over myself but does anyone else feel like this?

I wish the government had made this decision for us!

In my offline world it dominates. My sSIL is still not talking to my FIL.

Another quiet leaver here. I've trued to post a couple of times on "why did you vote leave?" "are you happy with how it is turning out" style threads, and have been staggered by the degree of vitriol being posted.

I think it is because for many people, their decision to vote one way or the other became all tangled up with their sense of identity. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think the rage is about a perceived attack on people's core values, and there is some kind of cognitive dissonance in the middle of it too. It's awful and fascinating at the same time.

I'm waiting quietly for the next actual step, hoping it'll be Theresa May in charge, because Michael Gove's wobbly jowls give me the cold heaves (I am thinking very deeply about this, as you see).

I also think the labour party implosion is all connected too - there's something coming out in the wash, here, about what the liberal left identifies as it's core values, and who they think represents those values. I think there may be something about how domestic politics doesn't really articulate the left "progressive" view point (or, at least, the labour party isn't quite sure who it stands for, and the lib Dems have become very minority, and Green aren't big enough yet, and SotB you don't get to vote SNP) and so maybe there was a feeling that it's alright, all of that is really a domestic side show, and where our values are really being articulated and performed is on continental Europe, and now a bunch of British tossers have said "nah, we don't want to be in that club and you have to leave it too".

That's what I'm working my wat around to thinking: That the depth of emotional response is to do with feeling a sense of belonging to a particular tribe, and then discovering that you're going to get detached from it against your will, and then what the heck are you supposed to identify with? The disarrayed labour party?!

Sorry for typos. I swear it's was an autocorrect fail. I do know where apostrophes go!

I too think the referendum has been very divisive. I think there are a huge number of angry people, me for one. I'm a remainer, I'm not angry at the leave voters apart from the genuine racists as I think they had their own valid reasons. But I am angry with Cameron for calling the referendum, Boris for being on the Leave side just for his own political ambitions(haha that ended well)
and Corbyn for being so wishy washy and irrelevant.

We've been dreadfully let down by our politicians and the ordinary wo/man on the street will end up paying for it.

It's not really been a part of general chat where I live. People don't generally discuss money or politics in public. I don't know how others voted outside of my family and no one outside of family have asked about my vote. It's not that people don't take it seriously or have strong views. Quite the opposite in fact. People have simply just carried on with things as normal and quietly respect other people's views- thank goodness.
The only ranting I've seen is on line (mostly here).

I've discussed it some with my other half who voted remain, there hasnt been a hint of animosity or criticism between us, the idea of blaming someone who voted the other way seems ludicrous to both of us

I didnt expect the almighty hoo haa thats going down on here....I guess people take the opportunity to sound off and get shirty because it's anonymous
fair enough I suppose, mumsnet is mostly blather and banter in my view....light entertainment
I dont take it seriously

I do wonder if social media makes it all a lot worse. You can constantly see stuff online that constantly stirs you up or upsets you - whichever way you voted. And you need to focus hard on not rising to it.
If we'd all got it out of our systems in a single conversation last Friday, maybe we'd be able to move forward more easily?
In my real life people are still talking about it. Mostly grieving, but a couple have said they were exiters. But real life hasn't been vitriolic for me like the Internet has - though that's also my experience of life in general.

We are divided ..... Utterly divided because we have two entirely different ideologies sitting behind the vote.
Many remain voters thought we were on the brink of a brave new world .... the recession was easing and Britain was leading the way in showing that creating a rich and diverse society was the way forward. Yes - due to the recession and the collective idiocy of the previous labour govt and the current govt in not building infrastructure to keep up with a growing population - services were stretched. But we were coming out of recession and the country had a bit of cash! Corbyn (dreadful leader but great principles) had been elected by popular vote. No chance of winning but was giving a clear signal to those that came after him that people wanted a fairer more equal society (& we were getting to the position were we could afford it!) Remain voters thought we were going to lead the world into this brave new world and show that a diverse multicultural society was the most successful. Given time they would have proven that people from every countries/every religion can live together to create a strong, principled and successful country. We would have only voted in people that would. The current government policy being a necessary evil to get the books balanced again after a world wide crash. The next government would have had the money and the will (voted by the people) to build the infrastructure needed and the economy would have boomed. We would have lead the world. Remain voters feel that that has been snatched away by the fact that just over half the voting population saw a different future - one where people vote not to embrace our neighbors; one where we see our only chance of success in being 'great' by bring on our own. And the thought process has been started and lead by Farage - a xenophobic disgrace to our country - to start a change that advocates isolationists, right wing philosophies. Leave voters can claim till the end of days that that's not what they voted for but no one will listen to that. No one will hear about individual research opinion that claim argument with the ideology around EU or objections to the bureaucratic machinations of the EU. No one will hearing that. Leave voters are shouting at the wind. People are only hearing the xenophobic message that is at the Leave movements origins no matter how principled and well thought out some leave voters rationale was. Some leave voters claim "every country in the EU is going to follow suit demanding its own referendum" as if this is proof that they were right. Right wing parties across the continent are rallying behind this reinforcing the racist overtones of this policy. Leave voter actions have only given increased power and voice to the most reprehensible political parties and ideologies in Europe.
Remain voters believe that Britain could have lead the way to the future but instead because there was temporarily a few less school places available and a longer wait at the doctors surgery, we've taken the cowards way out and retreated.
A divided society - absolutely because 48% of people felt they were voting to move forwards and feel 52% of people are dragging them backwards. It can be nothing other than a bitter divide.

Everybody is focusing on the wrong divide really.

These two articles are very astute;

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/brexit-vote-poor-elite

www.nytimes.com/2016/06/28/world/europe/european-union-brexit-sunderland-britain-cameron.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Effic thank you so much. That is the first time I've begun to appreciate why remainers are so utterly gutted.

I too agree that most people are decent, lovely and kind regardless of their vote

What's anti-democratic about the EU?

Yes its created a huge divide. My oldest friend has been extremely vocal about her left Wing views and said exactly what she thought of leave voters. Non of it pleasant or true for that matter. I lasted about 24 hours of reading rants on Facebook before giving her the chop and removing her from my life.
The referendum seems to have brought out people true colours, and not for the best I'm afraid.

The links above show a very good example of what pees me right off. So people of Sunderland have voted to leave because they are "uneducated" and the "elite" voted remain because they're educated?
That's the terminology that has really got my back up. EVERYONE is entitled to their vote (and no I'm not from Sunderland lol)

and yet another thread turns into a vitriolic attack on the 'leave' voters
the social media and gross distortions given out by the media have an awful lot to answer for
effic
People are only hearing the xenophobic message that is at the Leave movements origins no matter how principled and well thought out some leave voters rationale was. Some leave voters claim "every country in the EU is going to follow suit demanding its own referendum" as if this is proof that they were right. Right wing parties across the continent are rallying behind this reinforcing the racist overtones of this policy. Leave voter actions have only given increased power and voice to the most reprehensible political parties and ideologies in Europe.
Remain voters believe that Britain could have lead the way to the future but instead because there was temporarily a few less school places available and a longer wait at the doctors surgery, we've taken the cowards way out and retreated.
A divided society - absolutely because 48% of people felt they were voting to move forwards and feel 52% of people are dragging them backwards. It can be nothing other than a bitter divide
^^
like this.

Effic summed it up perfectly!

Also, personally, I am very scared though that it will have an immediate financial impact on our family income. We've already seen a financial impact, but hope things calm down. I can't help looking at those who voted leave and thinking "you don't give a fuck about me" which of course they don't, why should they?

? You don't have to be uneducated to think the elite have shafted the working classes and created gross and disgusting inequality which is totally divisive. How that affected the referendum is more debatable, however. It made me more inclined to vote remain. Get EU money in an area that remains depressed, though, and you could be forgiven for thinking that maybe if there weren't EU money around, our own government would be paying more attention, rather than thinking the EU had done the job for it. In reality, I think that's a vain hope, because none of the parties at Westminster have shown themselves to be anything other than in the thrall to the money markets (and the right wing press). The EU had, overall, a more balanced economy than the UK. Without it, we are even more at the mercy of the international money markets, not less.

When half the country votes the other way to each other and people are emotional about it, it is guaranteed that the country may be split.

As a leaver I know that if the vote had gone the other way, I would have been very sad and upset, but I would have accepted the vote and got on with making the best I could of the situation. However, one thing I do notice is the vitriolic behaviour of the remainers towards the leavers. It prompts me to wonder why?

I am also very much aware that when half the community is nasty and unpleasant towards the other half we have a problem. It seems to me that problem is being caused by those who are being nasty.

mollie123 Genuine question - exactly what was "vitriolic" about Effic's post that you quoted? I get that you disagree with what he/she has written, but that doesn't make her vitriolic.

I've seen this word bandied around a lot this week but it seems to have become a trope that Leave voters are being victimised by "vitriolic Remain voters". I have definitely seen plenty of posts from Remainers which justify that label but I didn't think Effic's deserved that.

Also I have seen plenty of equally unpleasant comments directed the other way, from ad hom blasts calling Remainers "snobbish anti-democratic sanctimonious Ivory tower dickheads" to directly telling posters fearful for their homes and livelihoods to "get a grip", telling foreign-born or ethnic minority posters who feel vulnerable and unwelcome "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

I'm certain, of course, that we would all agree that those are also examples of vitriol and in the interests of "getting a grip" that people actually losing their jobs or being racially abused is rather worse than being verbally disagreed with, however acidly, on the Internet.

Nothing vitriolic about effic's post. That is the problem I find. Remainers try to explain why we feel as we do and are accused of vitriol. It's happened to me too and it's deeply frustrating.

Of course the country is going to be divided. Those who didn't want to leave feel our future and our children's future has been dramatically altered. And because it's on the back of political gamesmanship and the egos of two men, it is even worse.

And all we see is the government in turmoil, the opposition crumbling, Tories climbing over each other to stab each other in the back and racist and xenophobic attacks increased. We can't see any good. I'm afraid and yes, we are a bit cross.

I think you are naive to think the nation won't be divided. It's why there shouldn't be referendums on these issues.

effic's post sums up exactly how I feel. The end of austerity was in sight and now we are likely to experience years more.

Brexiteers are pointing to the fact that financial markets appear to have stabilised, but this has been at a very high cost to the value of the £. The effects of inflation are going to start hitting us soon, and I think we are heading for a prolonged period of stagflation, like we experienced in the 1980s.

Unfortunately it looks like our country is going to break up with Scotland and maybe Northern Ireland claiming independence. If we lose our financial services sector to Frankfurt/Paris, there will be nothing left to call Great Britain. We will be a very small state with a small economy and very little influence in the world. Yes I do feel incredibly sad.

Thank you all for your comments, I genuinely think it is good to hear peoples' true feelings underneath all of the 'noise'.

I don't think a leave voter or remain voter sits into a certain category. There may be more of a certain demographic that voted one way or another in certain areas but even in London where 60% voted to stay, 40% still voted to leave.

I agree that the media really doesn't help. I've been shocked at how biased the media has been in both directions. So much for the BBC being impartial! I'm also shocked at how both Tory and Labour politicians have behaved in the aftermath.

I never thought on the 23rd when I voted there would be such social fall-out. :( I really hope there is a PM that can heal divisions but it's not looking hopeful.

We all hear the same information but process it in different ways.

I still don't get why people think that an important constitutional decision should have been decided on such a slim majority. Yes I get it was 1.3million, but look at the percentage 4%. This should have been interpreted as a protest vote, which it was, not a lets take a sledgehammer to 40+ years of peace in Europe and our economic foundations.

As a protest vote, the politicians would have got talking. It would have opened up debate all over the country. It was great that nearly 10% of the politician voted when they don't usually.

They asked the wrong question, with no footnotes on what it meant in practice.

And yes twofalls, maybe I was naive. I really wish now they'd never been a referendum.