Brexiters! Over here please...

[MotherOfBleach]

Us Remainers have questions.

We've been searching high and low for answers but can't find any.

1. What's the plan? There's a plan right? We've just made momumental, life changing decision, of course there's a plan. You just wanted to surprise us with it, right? We're surprised, you can tell us now.

2. Long term gain. All of this turmoil is for long term gain. The £ dropping of a cliff, markets crashing, job losses, racism and xenophobia, they're all worth it for the long term gains we can look forward to. That's what we keep hearing. But what are these long term gains? Because if it's wonky bananas they'd better gold plated, diamond encrusted wonky bananas or we're all gonna be really cross.

You are wrong ARum - flights for 4 to the UK for a family are on average about 4500 USD. That is out of reach for almost every family in America.

Many will jump on flights which are already dropping to 60% of that cost - you have to remember the UK is still a lifetime dream destination for many Americans (whether it's hard for you to imagine or not, it's true).

Yes most Americans get only 2 weeks vacation a year and if a flight to the UK is nearly the same cost as a flight to NYC or Florida or wherever, it would be considered a great opportunity.

I'm not sure why some folks think this is what I said is the 'plan' for Brexit officials, I just mentioned it as it's being reported heavily and discussed overseas.

You have the world's 5th biggest economy

6th biggest since the referendum...

Professor Michael Dougan analyses the EU referendum debate
One of the UK’s leading EU law experts criticizes the referendum debate’s “dishonesty on an industrial scale”, as he considers the claims and counter claims from each side.

www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/

Where was this bloke in the run-up to the referendum?

I have nothing against Norway but Norway still have to agree to EU trade regulations and pay a fee to access the single market, so they don't get wonky bananas either.

I'm not sure that following Norway was the plan. It won't leave us any better off. We won't be much worse off, admitedly but we won't be any better off either.

So again, why the need for the shitty? What's the gain?

Well, I disagree that you have to leave free movement to access the single market. If it was me, I would call their bluff hard on that one. It was never necessary before, and they desperately need the British money incoming, no matter their bluster. Britain gave the 3rd most to the EU while being the 2nd highest in net losses financially.

With France, Netherlands, Italy, Greece, Finland and even Sweden (and also Germany but Merkel will never allow it) calling for referendums to leave and polls showing they support an exit, the UK will be the first out of the boiling pot.

The plan is to wait for the Eurozone to collapse due to the debts and/or political unrest in Greece, Italy, France, Portugal and Spain.

Then when it is in tatters the UK steps in to form a new, fairer and more prosperous EU.

Everyone knows leave voters are more risk-taking in nature, who needs a plan

And just to directly answer your question on why the short term losses, it's for national sovereignty which is a right afforded by the UN. No one wants to be losing money hand over fist to unelected officials in a commissar style setup in Brussels, with no accountability.

If at worst, things just go back to normal - you then have your own elected leaders to hold accountable when there is a muck up. The British democracy is the oldest in the world which is still being practiced and almost every Western (and Commonwealth) country in the world is based upon it in some fashion. If that is lost, there is no amount of money which could bring it back.

That which is new and progressive can be good, but that which is old and proven, once lost - is never regained.

"Well, I disagree that you have to leave free movement to access the single market."
Oh good. Fancy coming and doing the negotiations for us? You sound like an expert...

Do you disagree with my reasoning behind it?

We have sovereignty. The UK is a soveriegn country.

The EU is not run by unelected officials in a commissar style setup in Brussels, with no accountability

It's run by the elected governments of it's member states. Nothing can get through the EU without France, Germany and the UK agreeing to it.

Yes we have to give up some rights for that priveldge, such as the right to buy wonky bananas, but in return we get more than our fair say on major issues.

And I am no expert - but I pray there will be experts involved in the negotiations. Look how the world has stopped for the this - for a small island country off the coast of Europe....the country which led the way through the world and pioneered things like industrialization, democracy, law and order, negotiations and technology - the last 3 centuries.

The value is in the British people's intrinsic net worth and the world knows it. Necessity is the mother of invention and no one does that better than the British.

And I am no expert - but I pray there will be experts involved in the negotiations.

I thought the British public were sick of experts, no? Are they back in fashion again?

You are wrong ARum - flights for 4 to the UK for a family are on average about 4500 USD. That is out of reach for almost every family in America. Many will jump on flights which are already dropping to 60% of that cost - you have to remember the UK is still a lifetime dream destination for many Americans (whether it's hard for you to imagine or not, it's true).

I lived in the US for 3 years. It's meaningless to talk about 'average' flight cost in a country that big; where departing from Los Angeles rather than New York will add 3000 miles to your London flight. I don't agree that England is a mythical dream destination the ordinary American longs to visit, prevented only by cost. In a country where 10 days' annual leave is a fairly good deal, flying long-haul for a short, exhausting vacation most Americans I know who've visited have managed to fit in London, Scotland and several European cities in 7 or fewer days is just not that appealing or practical to many people and never will be. Maybe there'll be a minor, opportunistic bump in numbers, but I don't think cheap flights and a devalued pound is going to cause the kind of mass upswing you envisage.

And it's also just pathetic. International media gleefully promoting the UK as your budget holiday destination is not 'yay! the tourist industry will boom'. It's 'awesome, we've fucked up and the world knows it'.

Yeah, I pray there are experts too. Problem is, we don't have any.

We haven't needed any trade experts. The EU dealt with all of that for us. All the experts work for the EU.

I'm sorry I don't understand your wonky bananas metaphor - and I suppose there were more people who disagreed that the sovereignty of your country was not at stake. They also did not think the benefits to have your officials weigh in on EU issues outweighed the negatives such as mass immigration.

Not being goady at all, I know how things can come across on the internet.

Oh... fuck. Just read SayWhat's latest post.

That's it? That's why we're not screwed? Because the British people are awesome, better and special?

I don't mean to be rude Satwhat, but I think the people of London would far prefer the city jobs than a few extra tourists.

On the plus side people might be able to buy London property...........Oh no wait nobody will have a job!

This is going to make the housing crash in the US look like a little blip.

But hey ho we have our country back.........Or whats left of it.

MotherOfBleach

It's run by the elected governments of it's member states.

Not entirely true.

Each Commissioner is first nominated by their member state in consultation with the Commission President, although the President holds little practical power to force a change in candidate. The more capable the candidate is, the more likely the Commission President will assign them a powerful portfolio, the distribution of which is entirely at his discretion.

It should be noted however that although Members of the Commission are allocated between member-states they do not represent their states; instead they are supposed to act in European interests.

In addition to its role in approving a new Commission, the European Parliament has the power at any time to force the entire Commission to resign through a vote of no confidence. This requires a vote that makes up at least two-thirds of those voting and a majority of the total membership of the Parliament. While it has never used this power, it threatened to use it against the Commission headed by Jacques Santer in 1999 over allegations of corruption

Maybe say is a D Trump Bot

This bloke was shared numerous times on my Facebook before Thursday. .

But we will still have to accept free movement of people.

Brexit has not and cannot solve that.

Brexit don't even have a leader for christ sake, how can they lead trade deals?

The bananas thing is something from RL. I was told by a colleague that the EU has lots of "restrictive" and "silly" laws that we are "forced" to adhere to. When I asked him what these were he told me that we are not allowed to buy wonky bananas.

He spent 10 minutes Googling before telling me. That's the answer he came up with. Wonky bananas, eggs in odd numbers and that water hydrates you. These are the reasons he voted out

No one is being gleeful about your situation? I think it's quite the opposite - I think most people only wish the very best for the UK and much of the talk of travelling to the UK was to show some support while saving some money on a flight.

The US, UK and their Commonwealth, and the Asian block (perhaps Russia as well) could form the largest trading block in the world and the countries who inevitably will leave the EU will also likely join. Although they would not be necessary.

Well, I don't know your colleague - he sounds a bit dense. Perhaps he was trying to describe restrictions on farming and the problems they have caused? EU has super suppliers like Monsanto who are truly evil in the agricultural world.

Of course, I'm being nice to him - does he always have such a hard time explaining himself?

Interestingly I remember being in a shop at Universal Studiis Orlando a number of years ago.
I overheard a couple of staff talking. They were saying how the pound was strong against the dollar & sales would be good that weeK.

I was surprised that it had such an impact. But a week pound is actually going to cause a lot of issues for many tourist destinations.

Staycation is definitely going to be the word of the next 20 odd years or so.

Anyways, Brexit might never happen. MPs are duty bound to vote according to their conscience. If they don't believe we should leave they must not vote to leave.