To think Juncker is an arrogant fucker

[laidbackneko]

I was/am a staunch remainer and, like many, am shell shocked at the result. IMO leaving the EU is quite frankly a disaster for this country's economy. The harsh truth is we simply don't have enough desirable commodity to be able to trade on the world stage that puts us in a strong position to negotiate favourable terms.

But I watched in horror at Juncker's speech on the eve of the referendum with his bully boy stance and tactics - which has only intensified since the result.

The best result the UK can hope for now is that Brexit will cause a domino effect which means the entire EU will be forced to reform under a new president and government.

The Czech Republic has now spoken out, criticising Juncker and calling for his resignation. It's a long shot but let's just hope and pray that other countries follow suit.

He's an odious bully with a provincial boy complex.

Cameron asked them to give us something he could go back with to the uk to put our minds at rest regarding our britex issues

The U.K. had a whole separate agreement just for itself that Cameron agreed and brought back. None of the other member states have asked for such a thing, that's already special treatment for the UK. If it wasn't enough it wasn't enough but you are never going to get things all to one country's liking in a union of so many.

What's happened to the Gideon thread? Has MN bottled it?

Junker hasn't done too badly for himself has he?
For a drunken oaf I mean.

TotallyPearShaped I dislike the divorce analogy. I view it more like deciding to look for a new job - it's entirely up to us when we hand pur notice in. Part of reason we have decided to leave is so that we can stop being ordered around by the likes of Juncker - might as well start as we mean to go on.

Now we just need Boris to locate his balls! Was watching The Wright Stuff this morning and one of the panellists said that what we should be focussing on now is making our politicians stand by their pledges. I agree - what they do now is essential.

We have become too used to and too accepting of politicians lying and breaking promises.

I view it more like deciding to look for a new job - it's entirely up to us when we hand pur notice in.

Put your employer can ask you to leave immediately, if they so desire, and they won't let you say I'm handing in my notice but I'd like to stay for another 6 months (or whatever) on full salary and while I'm at it I want to keep the company car and I'd like........blah blah blah

They can quite legitimately show you the door.

Once you've handed your notice in, yes. But we haven't done that until we trigger art 50. What we've done at the moment is announce that we are looking for alternative emloyment.
When you hand in your notice at work, your boss still has to respect the terms of your contract, so if they want you to leave asap they still have to pay you. Not quite sure how that would work wrt the EU but you get my drift.

Junker is fucking hideous.

I suppose that's why the employment analogy doesn't really work, you wouldn't let your employer know you were seeking alternative employment. You'd wait and hand in your notice as appropriate once you had made the decision and were ready to go.

The U.K. isnt so important that it should be allowed to turn its back on the EU I don't know - we put quite a lot of money in; we are the only member state who is member of the Five Eyes (from whence other EU states glean their intelligence as we help them out); we have one of the most effective militaries in the EU; we import an awful lot of EU goods; an awful lot of EU citizens live in the UK.....not important at all really.

Please use in the rest of that quote of you are going to refer to it scaryteacher as I asked another poster above. I didn't say the UK wasn't important, just not so important that it can hold the rest of the EU to ransom indefinitely while it dictates everything that happens next. There are many other members and the interests of the EU as a whole that need to be considered.

Hi all,

After a great many requests, we're moving the bulk of the referendum threads to the new board here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_

Many of you, understandably, want to discuss this subject at length and in detail - this seems a good way to simultaneously keep AIBU and Chat moving for those who don't wish to participate. Of course, the conversations will still appear in Active.

The UK has had one foot out the door for decades - Europe has always told us to shit or get of the pot. This has now come to pass and everyone's now in a state of shock, disbelief or denial (amongst other things). I've never liked the way the UK behaved towards the EU - special treatment, Farage and his fellow nutters etc but Juncker has no legitimacy. Does anyone else know about the whole Spitzenkandidaten process - Juncker should be shown the door.
I do however think the EU is in dire need of reform and perhaps this will be the impetus it needs. It's not the decision to leave that worries me the most, it's who will steer it - I can't imagine a Boris/Gove duo! That would be a nightmare.

Bit hard to keep a referendum secret though Not saying your boss can't make life unpleasant before you go, but the fact remains that when you hand in your notice is very much your own business and legally your boss has to respect your contract. Best case scenario is that you agree mutually beneficial terms. This is not possible with Juncker throwing a hissy fit - he damages the rest of the EU as well as us, which is why the likes of Merkel are being measured. They ave the sense to know this. But wtf does Juncker care, he gets paid regardless and no one can sack him. Which brings us back to why we want out in the first place...

This is why none of the overly simplified analogies work. It isn't like leaving a job, or leaving a marriage (although that one is closer I think). It's unprecedented and its disingenuous to lay the blame at the EU's door for a decision (and the subsequent fallout) made in the UK.

Personality issues aside, the EU has to move on now and stem the uncertainty. While the UK is coming undone politically at the moment and no one seems to want to step up and take ownership of the decision, the decision has still been made. Should the EU wait an undetermined amount of time to try to resolve the issue (even in October there may be no resolution or triggering of Art 50) or should it get on with moving things forward and sorting out this mess, for the benefit of the Union overall and the other member states?

Because it suited them to have us there. No one does anything for no gain.

Keeping the pound was a sensible decision and I bet if other EU nations had their tome again they'd not be so quick to dump theirs.

Great post OP. Fellow 'remain' voter & wholeheartedly agree with you

Anyway, isn't that the point - the 52% who voted out don't want to have to clear decisions with the rest of the EU first.

Because it suited them to have us there. No one does anything for no gain

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement. Now it is ending and both sides have a role to play in bringing it to a close (if that's what ultimately happens). It can't be all in the hands of one party, the U.K., as some posters seem to want.

nobody can blame the EU for not giving even more concessions. Nobody can blame them for being happy that us faffing around is ruining their markets. And Nobody can blame the EU for being keen to be shot of us. Why on earth should they let us have it all our own way?

Seems plenty do blame the EU for all these things tiggy, reading through the thread above and many others over the last few days.

The fact that the uk isn't ready to leave strikes me as being childish latte
There should have been plans in place for a clean brexit, after all you held a vote on it, and it was one of two outcomes of the vote. Not rocket science to think ahead and make plans.

The EU have made plans for either outcome. We would like to enact them ASAP so it's business as usual. We don't fancy sinking with you.

The UK's status regarding its internal political arrangements is not the business of the EU and not our problem. if Dave is too cowardly, or self serving to resign when there's work to be done, well, that's who you voted for too. Buyers' remorse isn't the EU's problem either.

Can you not see that by making out that Juncker (the EPP candidate who was elected by the eu parliament) is the bogey man and somehow responsible for your 'downfall' is just a fallacy and a waste of time.

You have work to do, so stop whinging and playing the blame game, and get on with the exit you democratically voted for.

You've given your notice by voting out. The fact you're whinging about not having something lined up for yourselves, isn't the EUs concern.
You've handed in your resignation, now clear your desk.
You've chosen to leave: we want to get on with life without you, so off you go. You don't get to hang around the office, haunting the water cooler. That's in no-one's interests.
You need to start your own trade negotiations, ASAP and get cracking before your economy tanks further.

If this referendum result seems final and shocking, well maybe you weren't aware of the fact Dave was playing you to win an general election, and Boris and Nigel flattered you by telling you the lies you wanted to hear, fulfilling their own Machiavellian power hungry agenda.

If you want to point the finger, and blame someone for getting you in the fine mess you're in, point it as Boris, Nigel and Dave.

It's not the EU's fault you've shot yourself in the foot, but we don't want to limp along with you.

Btw France is now the 5th largest global economy, the U.K. has slipped to 6th.

Hit the nail on the head there totallypearshaped. Couldn't agree more.

He's still a bully though.