Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

it's because there are fewer voters. Simple as.

Nope, you're going to have to explain that more before it makes sense...

There are fewer voters in Wales, they didn't vote like Scotland.

Yup that makes no sense.

I'm glad to hear that you'll be ok Trixy but your post really exemplifies what I've said both about indyref and Brexit - when businesses lose confidence and belt tighten, downsize or pull out it's not the better paid more senior people who generally suffer. They might have to take a step down to move in to another role or sector but they'll generally be very employable. It's the people in the lower level posts who will be screwed - because the first thing companies tighten up on is support staff roles so there will be far fewer jobs available, and where jobs exist they'll be competing with more qualified people willing to take a step down to keep working.

yes both DH and I can move at any point to anywhere in the world, should Scotland really become an unacceptable place to live - we don't want to, but we're definitely not stuck, except from an emotional attachment perspective!

tabulahrasa
When I travel to London no one speaks English.
And those not speaking English seem to talk V loudly across the tube!

when businesses lose confidence and belt tighten, downsize or pull out it's not the better paid more senior people who generally suffer

I disagree with that because it is the higher paid middle management, for example, who are removed, thus saving more money.

That's not been my experience tbh, I've worked in a few big FS companies. They probably did get rid of middle managers to begin with but in many cases they don't actually have that many now who aren't also fulfilling some professional role. It's also easier to off shore call centres and admin than it is to offshore more senior roles.

oh, Seneca - 'ageist slurs'

If I want to call a supposed professional who prevented my child with specific learning difficulties accessing help by dint of his accent 'being the same as his parents' a 'horrible old bat' then I will.
It's a damn sight better than what I'd really like to call her...
The worrying point is that it was defended at the top of the LA.
When I called an educational lawyer they initially chuckled. Then caught themselves on and told me if I had evidence (I do) then it was serious.

I remember this from the IndyRef threads.
Any anecdote about an English person having a bad time in Scotland due to their nationality (racism to me) was picked and picked and picked at and then denounced as untrue. Yet there were many of them.
Scotland is not racist in general, unless you are English (and then not in all areas / all people by any means).
But it does exist. And it has got worse since the IndyRef, just as the EURef has brought other racism to the surface. Simply denying it doesn't solve the problem.

It is part of what is going on. To celebrate being English in England risks being associated with UKIP and being called a racist. It makes you unpopular. Those with concerns about Border control cannot voice them.
I have concerns about Border control. Not that we should not welcome immigrants, but that we have no sodding clue who is coming in / where/ how many etc. How can we support people if we do not even know who is here? How do we set up centres to help with housing/language skills/benefits/nhs/schools access if we don't know who is here/who is most needy?

To celebrate being Scottish in Scotland means 'doing the right thing' (according to the SNP) and makes you more popular.
Scotland's 'outlet' is a sanctioned moaning about the English.
But which can become very nasty and has no place in a modern Scotland to feel proud of.

Apparently Ms Sturgeon is campaigning in Europe for Scotland's right to remain in the EU.

This is surely illegal. We had a vote on whether the UK should stay or no. Not on whether Scotland should stay or no. Surely we need another vote. There could be many non Scots who voted to stay in the EU who dont' want to split the UK.

Scotland can only 'remain in the EU' if it has another IndyRef and votes Yes.
Then it can legally apply to join. It will, and the EU will say Yes.
That is what will happen, within 2 years I believe.
The UK is going to break up, on the back of Brexit.
The whole thing is a disaster.
We are an international laughing stock and viewed as a country full of racists and with a plummeting economy. Super

"When I travel to London no one speaks English."

Well firstly that's a complete exaggeration, I've been to London, it's simply not true that no-one speaks English, secondly London taken seperately from England as a whole voted remain...the north of England which is geographically and usually politically closer to Scotland voted to leave.

You don't hit England and suddenly it's just full of people who don't speak English.

"Scotland can only 'remain in the EU' if it has another IndyRef and votes Yes."

Not necessarily...a federal system and staying in both unions could be possible, I don't think likely, because it'd involve completely reforming how parliament works, but they're not the same thing.

You don't hit England and suddenly it's just full of people who don't speak English

Very true - I didn't say this was the case.

The UK is going to break up, on the back of Brexit
I wouldn't put money on anything now!

Apparently the "reverse Greenland" solution is predicated on the notion that the whole UK nominally retains its EU membership but there are Treaty opt-outs for England and Wales. This seems highly implausible to me.

So far the EU are making very clear they are not prepared to jeopardise their relationship with the UK by entering side negotiations with Scotland. (I assume they will fully engage with Scotland as part of the UK team as already mooted). I respect NS's intentions in representing the Scottish position and thought her speech in the Scottish Parliament yesterday was very balanced and measured and respectful of the Brexit minority albeit within the context of her pro-Independence stance.

I think the UK will get a decent Brexit deal and will maintain strong strategic relationships with the EU and European countries. I am also certain further devolution is likely especially with the move to more regional democracy in England. Therefore it seems unlikely Scotland will vote to leave the UK in favour of the EU in 2 years time (unless we actually do just hate England ).

Wondering where this London is that nobody speaks English, cos I've clearly been visiting a different one several times a year.

I'd said similar about the Greenland option on another thread, I think we'd need an English parliament for it to work so England and Wales could leave whilst uk remained theoretically in but only for Scotland and NI - and in theory London if it became some sort of city state too.

I am sure this has been pointed out already, but isn't the only reason that the United Kingdom has held together peacefully (recently) because of devolution? So why Brussels (Juncker in particular) thinks that they can only hold the EU together by enforcing more and more centralised power on its member states defies logic.

"Oor Wullie" was a bit confused when he won the Scots Language school prize a couple of weeks ago. My London relatives speak flawless Estuary English. Very difficult to find anyone in the UK speaking properly at all these days.

For goodness sake, people speak English in London. There might be a higher proportion of bi and multilingual people living in and visiting London, (as there always has been) and I can't vouch for the English skills of every tourist, but the idea that no one speaks English is complete and utter rubbish.

mobile.twitter.com/benphillips76/status/748034210796027905

Awful multicultural London.

For goodness sake, people speak English in London. Amazing that you have to point this out merry Good old MN.

Even before the rise of Scottish Nationalism, I experienced "racism" (I just called it ignorant insults) when I worked in England between 84 and 92, due to my Scottish accent (even though it was an educated "posh" one)

I didn't blame "English" Nationalism or Racism - I just blamed the ignorant twats idiots.

Maybe if I'd believed in Scottish Independence back then, I'd have blamed the English Nationalists and resented all the English

MissMargie

When I travel to London no one speaks English.

Where in freakin' London were you?!? EVERYONE in London speaks English. If not, all those big companies wouldn't be there (but they're now threatening to leave regardless).

There are some places that are dominated by those with Indian descent or so, but that's not in central London. And even so, I used to go there even though I lived in London NW3. Took me 40 minutes to an hour by tube to get there, but there were little shops where you could get your eyebrows threaded before it became mainstream. I remember my mum visiting me back then, and I took her there. First, she thought, "Oh, this is weird." But then, she got caught up buying sparkly shoes and fresh fruit. And when she visited again a year later, she made her own way there because apparently, she remembered they had better mangoes than Tesco!

You just sound a bit bigotted. Sorry!

Even before the rise of Scottish Nationalism, I experienced "racism" (I just called it ignorant insults) when I worked in England between 84 and 92, due to my Scottish accent (even though it was an educated "posh" one)

I didn't blame "English" Nationalism or Racism - I just blamed the ignorant twats idiots.

Maybe if I'd believed in Scottish Independence back then, I'd have blamed the English Nationalists and resented all the English

My experience is almost exactly the same prettybird Thanks for articulating it.

Most CAN speak English in London, I am thinking of being on the tube and not hearing English spoken, I must be visiting at a different time of day to the rest of you.