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Brexit

Why is Scotland so different?

430 replies

Indiestarr · 26/06/2016 13:10

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

OP posts:
STIDW · 28/06/2016 21:33

Now we are being told we want to be in the EU.

That's not unreasonable, 62% of voters in Scotland voted Remain. Labour hasn't ruled out independence, although I believe they may have a compromise solution.

STIDW · 28/06/2016 21:34

Really? That's not how I heard it at all. Begging doesn't sound remotely dignified to me.

Yes, dictionary definition.

HirplesWithHaggis · 28/06/2016 21:39

Begging may not be dignified, but in this case it was an impassioned plea. And yes, it was seen as that by those in the Parliament, and yes, he got a standing ovation for it.

So EU wouldn't work with Scotland to keep us in? I wouldn't be too sure about that.

MrsLupo · 28/06/2016 22:25

Great thread, sorry to be late to it. Smile

Scotland is different from England imo because it has a strong and secure sense of its own national identity and history.

The English national identity by contrast is elusive, fragile and easily threatened by outsiders, who threaten to dilute it. MN is fond of denouncing bullies with fragile egos as narcissists, and England is a classic case. We like to pretend that England and Great Britain are coterminous, and we're still dining out on our former imperial glories because it's hard to think what we've done recently that's great. (Ironic, because some of our finest achievements have actually occurred in the latter half of the C20, e.g the NHS, the welfare state... um, OK, that's it actually.) We relive this greatness through occasional ill-conceived military forays and football. We are envious of the sentimental trappings of patriotism that other countries, particularly the US, display, and often try to copy them, with varying degrees of success, e.g. Independence Day, Thanksgiving, that annoying hand-on-heart thing that athletes all seem to do on the Olympic podium nowadays. Our national symbols, the poppy, the flag of St George, and the red nose (let's be fair, we have a GSOH), are typically displayed proudly on our German, Japanese or French cars.

Interestingly, in the local areas that have a strong regional identity (London, Liverpool, Newcastle, Brighton) or a healthy ego (Oxford, Cambridge), the Remain vote was high, as in Scotland.

(I am being only slightly tongue-in-cheek, just to be clear.)

Actually, I do believe that many (most? all?) nations have a psychiatric profile. The US, for example, has paranoid schizophrenia. That may be best kept for another thread though. Wink

LatinForTelly · 28/06/2016 23:25

Begging is quite a good negotiation tactic. Lose, lose, lose every time, and sweep the money off the table. Pride has no place in good commercial negotiation.

(Slightly funny though to imagine NS saying, right then Alyn, your role in this is to go out there and BEG.)

Brexiteerglassgarden · 28/06/2016 23:33

The US, for example, has paranoid schizophrenia

I think you're off target, it's megalomania surely?

MorrisZapp · 28/06/2016 23:36

Not sure about the regional identity bit.

Yorkshire?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/06/2016 23:38

Edinburgh is REALLY diverse. Not only from 2nd generation immigrants but newcomers choosing to live here.
It never used to be this diverse granted. Things have changed

Is it? I've lived in Edinburgh since 1987 and I love it but diverse? I really don't see that.

MorrisZapp · 28/06/2016 23:39

I thought Alyn was goals as fuck. Never heard of him in my life. Why is Farage an international household name and good, proper politicians like this doing thankless donkey work.

tabulahrasa · 28/06/2016 23:43

"Why is Farage an international household name and good, proper politicians like this doing thankless donkey work."

Well Farage has loads of free time to go round making himself well known, what with only bothering to vote like 40% of the time, it gives him more time to point out that we don't have a strong enough voice in Europe, while not giving us a strong voice in Europe see...

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/06/2016 23:45

Oh no, Trixy, are you a Euro MP? Never mind you will be able to swan around from now on on the humungous pensions they pay themselves (for a couple of years of living a luxury life with v generous living allowances)

What a nasty comment MissMargie

I thought Alyn whatever his name is was cringe making.

StatisticallyChallenged · 28/06/2016 23:56

I see a fair amount of diversity where I am - similarly, a lot of people who have moved here for uni or work and then stayed, met partners, had families etc. My workplace is a pretty diverse mix too, and our last round of job applicants had people from all over.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 28/06/2016 23:59

I am a remain but can I just point out over 1 million voters in Scotland voted to leave so I am a bit unconvinced that there is something in the Scottish psyche which makes one fluffy and tolerant and lovely.

I have no particular idea of myself as Scottish and I'm pretty certain I voted remain for the same reasons voters in cities such as Exeter, Bath, Oxford, Cambridge, Winchester or Bath did.

tabulahrasa · 29/06/2016 00:05

"I am a bit unconvinced that there is something in the Scottish psyche which makes one fluffy and tolerant and lovely."

Shock no? Grin I don't think anyone's said that though?

"I'm pretty certain I voted remain for the same reasons voters in cities such as Exeter, Bath, Oxford, Cambridge, Winchester or Bath did."

Oh yes, but what we're musing on is why is there such a difference in results between England and Scotland?

SenecaFalls · 29/06/2016 00:10

The 'horrible old bat' bit was nothing to do with her accent or nationality, you'll just have to take my word for that!

So what did it have to do with? It's ageist and offensive. It's possible to state your case without ageist slurs.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 29/06/2016 00:10

Yes, and I'd like to know why Scotland really does not have anything remotely approaching the number of immigrants England has and, on the whole , NHS and schools are in a much better state (setting aside the idiocies of Edinburgh council) yet still had over 1 million leave voters.

Happyhippy45 · 29/06/2016 00:17

Yeah I grew up in Edinburgh. My first boyfriend was mixed race. (Mauritius and Glasgow)....waaaay back in the 1980's.
I left for 10 years. Much more diverse when I came back in 2008.
Immigrants (first and second generation) are still a minority but there are much more than before.....and much more accepted.

StatisticallyChallenged · 29/06/2016 00:23

yet still had over 1 million leave voters

English folk Grin coming up here, buying up houses with their big London salaries and pricing out locals...

I'm afraid, in all seriousness, that the only leave voters I personally (am aware that I) know are both retired, very wealthy and very racist. They spend part of the year in the states, are hideously offensive about Mexicans and would vote Trump if they had a vote.

tabulahrasa · 29/06/2016 00:25

Well some I suppose will have voted on immigration as a UK issue rather than a seperate nation problem, there's going to be the EU is corrupt people, and the protest vote people...there were definitely people in the run up voting leave to both prevent and trigger an independence referendum.

So mostly the same reasons as England, just not as many were convinced it was a good idea. Which I think is the interesting bit.

Slightly OT, Gibraltar what on earth were the 823 people who voted leave there thinking????

SpringingIntoAction · 29/06/2016 01:25

Slightly OT, Gibraltar what on earth were the 823 people who voted leave there thinking????

Lol!

I have visited Gib many times. Every time you take a guided tour they are very keen to tell you just how British Gib is and how, when they held a referendum on union with Spain, only 30odd people people for the proposal. the guide's punchline is usually - "and we are still hunting them down".

Going to be some very embarrased tour guides from now on.

MissMargie · 29/06/2016 04:23

I feel that it's not the race or nationality of incomers, it's the numbers.

And being surrounded by people not speaking your language is not a situation most people would choose. Surely you are more likely to feel included in society if you can understand what others are saying.

tabulahrasa · 29/06/2016 08:38

So what...when you cross to the north of England suddenly you're surrounded by people not speaking English?

howabout · 29/06/2016 08:50

Yes, and I'd like to know why Scotland really does not have anything remotely approaching the number of immigrants England has and, on the whole , NHS and schools are in a much better state (setting aside the idiocies of Edinburgh council) yet still had over 1 million leave voters

I can't speak for the rest by I am a Scot first, a UK citizen second, an international citizen third, and a European fourth. Europe and the EU are not the same thing. The actions of the EU re the migrant crisis and Greece have given me cause to say "not in my name".

trixymalixy · 29/06/2016 08:51

Missmargie don't feel sympathy for me, I'll be fine, I have a buffer and marketable skills. I'm fairly senior in a European service centre, hence how I know that while the message is that a task force has been set up to look at the impact to the business the decision has been made and the company is pulling out of the U.K.

Don't feel sorry for me, but perhaps you should feel sorry for the several hundred admin staff that will be losing their jobs in the next couple of years, the cleaners, the wee woman that sells the coffee. Feel sorry for my cleaner who has just lost her job, the builder whose job has been cancelled.

The ripples will work their way out and I hope they reach you.

trixymalixy · 29/06/2016 08:55

Thanks itsall and lass.