To think that Boris didn't actually want Brexit to happen

[hownottofuckup]

And that something else was afoot entirely?
Possibly with David's support, or knowledge at least.
There's been quite a bit about the divide between him and his family (not that that means much necessarily)
His propaganda for leaving was ridiculous in the extreme (£350 million a week for the NHS?)
His reaction since the results were announced
I can't help but wonder if he seriously misjudged the voting populace and this was never his intention at all. More a tactical move with a view to securing something else entirely, purely for his own personal gain.
You could never really accuse Boris of being in touch with the 'common people' after all.

Yes it's that simple

Blimey 656, is that really so?

yup, it's as simple (or rather as complicated) as that.

Of course, MPs could just refuse to ratify the result but that's is even less likely to happen than a GE.

It's amazing how slow they all are to take on the challenge of dragging the UK out of Europe, oversee another referendum for Scotland and make good their promises that everyone will be better off. You'd think they'd be chomping at the bit. No sign of the buggers at all.

Boris backed leave as a direct action against DC , it was purely his own agenda and a move towards the premier position . Boris did what Boris does best , make a loud public fuss to gain attention . He and DC have almost never agreed on anything and it was yet another way to undermine the PM , he never in a million years expected to get the outcome he has , god help us if he becomes PM

Perhaps they don't want us to be confident in them

The trouble is that the Conservatives couldn't run a general election campaign on a Remain ticket. Labour are useless at the moment. A general election would have to take place quickly and there isn't time for any party to rustle up an outstanding candidate. I agree, though, that would be one way out.

Don't forget the fire that's been lit beneath NI. Martin McGuinness' calls for a referendum on a united Ireland could potentially lead to ructions there.

Ricecrispie, yes I'm sure they would make us beg for show but that arrangement with us would work nicely for the EU as well, get our cash, stick us back in our box without a say, removes the protracted periods of u certainty, job done. I simplify of course but just my general thoughts.

Their absence is absolutely shocking.

They could both run on the stay bandwagon. It doesn't have to be either or.

What are they going to say Mitzy? 'We're sorry, we screwed up'?

As refreshing and wonderful as it would be to see it, that's not going to happen.

The referendum should never have been called in the first place; utter madness to ask the general population to make such a decision.

But who is there to campaign for a new "Remain" government?

Theresa May?

The EU is in an interesting position when it comes to the negotiations with the UK.
They will want to be seen to be very tough, in order to try to deter voters in other countries from wanting their own referendum and possibly voting out. To make an example of the UK, if you like.
However, they do have reason to negotiate a good deal especially with regard to trade agreements. It's in their interest to do so, as much as the UK's interest.

Turbulent times ahead. I would like there to be a GE but I fear that the electorate isn't ready to vote the Tories out.

Maybe Dave will rock up with four carrier bags of Tunnocks and Swiss rolls.
Handsome, sadly I don't think he's a class enough act to bring the cake.

Thegirl, I totally agree they would make us beg to make an example out of us but do in the end want us to stay in.

It doesn't have to...that's rather the point !

'What are they going to say Mitzy? 'We're sorry, we screwed up'?'

Oh I know but it all just seems so lily livered. People on both sides batoning down the hatches in order to avoid the consequences.

And on the subject of Boris.
Boris as our PM and Trump as POTUS ? A sickening and terrifying prospect for the next few years.

Yes girlonthefireplace that's also what I was pointing at: that it is in fact mutually beneficial, and also, more to the point, ensures stability for business, for foreign investment, and for all the people currently benefiting from the free movement of persons.

I might tamper with the Tory ballot papers and swap Boris Johnson's name for Alan Johnson.

Agreed. BoJo was never anti EU but he supported the leave campaign to make friends amongst the euro sceptic MPs at Whitehall as he has few allies there after being away at the mayors office for so long.

He wanted to be populist, anti establishment and to represent 'change'. He thought remain would win and he would swing into being the next leader of the tories.

Now he's fucked that right up, any bid he makes will be blocked by pro EU tories, oh, and he has to deal with the mess of making brexit actually better for the country or on his head be it.

I agree with the take ion Boris's demeanour yesterday. I think he was totally blindsided by both the result and then Cameron's resignation (which was the honourable thing to do).

It's an interesting situation though that MP's saw so many voters in their own constituencies disagree with them. You wonder how many of them on all sides should be reflecting on that fact alone today.

And no, we can't have another referendum Nicola, our standing in Europe is gone. We were warned it would be and it is. To avoid destabilisation they'll want us exited as expediently as possible.

What we need now is a hero who will get us out of this pickle. And the really scary thought is there's no one.

But hey, at least the fishing industry will be back to save us all.

I would also suspect that the Handelsblatt "secret German plan" sounding tough on any access to the single market was intentionally leaked.

Germany is basically the only country (with the Netherlands) that exports more to the UK than it imports. Germany needs the UK in the single market.

The other 25 don't.

Yes, I agree that there's lots of personal motivations and politics going on behind the stated politics of the referendum.
I also agree that Boris was certainly in a sober mood for that speech, but I liked what he said (as a remain supporter)

*quite as much

When I watched Boris's statement yesterday, I thought it looked like he was trying really hard not to smile.

I don't buy the line about him being secretly really really super duper clever either. Fucking act like it then, don't create this character of an embarrassing buffoon. It's just more lies and trickery, and it makes him look more untrustworthy.